Dweezil Zappa

Hi everyone! I thought I'd share this unique interview with the hardcore Van Halen fans, which certainly includes Dweezil! Journalist Steven Rosen gave me permission to transcribe and share this early 1985 conversation he had with Edward's longtime friend and guitar technician Robin "Rudy" Leiren. It took me a couple of months to painstakingly transcribe these conversations, but I think it was well worth the effort. This is the only official interview Rudy ever gave. A very few select words from these interviews were published in the July 1985 issue of Guitar World, but the full interview was a very long one that has been heard as audio files by a few people, but this is the first time that the complete text of this interview has ever been shared.

There's a lot of fun stories about Rudy's involvement with Edward and the band, which ended very shortly after this interview a little later in the summer of 1985 when Rudy left the employ of Ed and the band. This wasn't the panacea of gear answers that I'd hoped for, but I still quite enjoyed Rudy's recollections and I was very please to discover a few gems of information. The first part of the interview is a bit looser and was done at Steve's apartment in Laurel Canyon, while the second and more "lucid" part of the interview was done at a Mexican restaurant in the Valley, according to Steve. Incredibly, portions of this interview were done the day before Dave quit the band and some other portions occurred on THE DAY that Dave quit the band, which puts these interviews as having occurred sometime in March of 1985 which by most accounts is when Dave had the meeting with Ed in which he declared that he quit!

To all the crazy Van Halen fans out there...enjoy!

 

Steven Rosen 1985 interviews with Robin “Rudy” Leiren

 

(tape begins, conversation in progress)

“Rudy” Leiren: …tell ya much. I couldn’t tell you anything…is…the only thing I could tell you is…The only way Van Halen relates to me in Junior High is…that’s the first time I saw them. I was in, I think, 7^th grade. It was like…yeah, I was in 7^th grade, ‘cause I remember I was still, you know, under the awe of the whole system, coming out of, you know, grade school going into the different classes, you know-a “big guy” now.

Steven Rosen: Yeah.

Rudy: But, uh, I remember we had an assembly, you know, an assembly, as you know, “Mandatory, you must attend”.

SR: Right.

Rudy: And usually meaning it’s some sort of, you know, driver education, or something like that…drug education something, but it was for a concert! And I was at Marshall Junior High School, Pasadena…

SR: Now was that his (Edward’s) high school? Or was that your high school?

Rudy: it was junior high school…he (Edward), he went there too, he went there too.

SR: He went to Marshall Junior High...

Rudy: He went to Marshall Junior High in Pasadena. Which is now a…uh…a junior high and senior high fundamental-type school. Uh…anyway…uh…very first time I saw them (Alex and Edward) and I was way up in the balcony. And down there on the stage…it was a pretty big stage, too. Uh…(chuckles) and they didn’t have much equipment. And they stood…they really tried to, you know like, they didn’t want to stand in the center, so they tried to, they split up. So it made it look a lot smaller. But, uh…there they were in white t-shirts and jeans. I was WAY up in the balcony. And I was…blown away.

SR: Really?

Rudy: I was blown away. I guess it was probably the first concert I’d really ever been to, you know? Even though it was at a high school…or junior high school. And, uh…they were playing all the songs I knew off the radio. So, like it…

SR: What were they playing? Do you remember?

Rudy: Cream. A lot of Cream.

SR: Did they really?

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: So, like the whole…the whole assembly was them playing?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah, that’s exactly what it was. I couldn’t understand it…it was like “Why are they doing this to us?” (laughs)…You know, this is supposed to be hell here. But I had a really good time and I was sitting up there and I remember…uh…watching Edward. He stuck out in particular. At that time it was Edward, Alex and Mark Stone-their original bass player. And, uh…or I shouldn’t say “original bass player” because there’s probably a lot of other people who will argue that point. But, uh…he was really the original one that played with them-you know, live.

SR: Were they called “Van Halen” here?

Rudy: No. They were called, uh… (long pause) Genesis.

SR: Genesis?

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: Not “Mammoth”?

Rudy: No. It’s “Genesis”

SR: It’s “Genesis”.

Rudy: And, uh…I remember thinking to myself, “That guy is going to become famous.” …’cause (excitedly) here he was, a kid my own age, out there on stage and playin’ everything that…uhh…you know, note-for-note. Playing the Clapton riffs NOTE-FOR-NOTE! (laughs) And, uh…(laughs) I was just…like, awed. I’m going “Man, this guy’s famous”. And then I remember the next time I saw them was at a…at a…they were playing at a dance at P.H.S.

SR: P.H.S.?

Rudy: Uh, Pasadena High School. And uh…I had a date with this girl that night. She went to a private school in Pasadena. And we went down there, and uh…they were playin’. And I remembered the same thing, saying “Oh man, these guys are great! These guys are really good.”. I’m lookin’ around, everybody walking around…lots of girls. And that was pretty much the, uh…that was the DIET. I mean when you wanted to go out and look for girls, you asked “Where is Genesis playing this week?”

SR: Really? They were still “Genesis”?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah. They were, uh… “Genesis” …they were “Genesis”, uh…up until Dave came into the band. I believe it was. If my memory serves me right. And then they changed it to “Mammoth”. Uh…The reason they had to change it was because of a band in England called “Genesis”. And so…you could have, you know, lawsuits and all that type of stuff, you know. So they changed it to “Mammoth”, they thought “Well that would be no problem…” and then there was another band called “Mammoth”, so they…so in order to avoid the whole thing, you know, they, uh…they were…Edward and Alex, they wanted it to be called “Rat Salad” (laughs)…that’s right. So, we could be buying Rat Salad albums today. But, uh…I believe it was Dave’s idea, originally, for “Van Halen”.

SR: Really?

Rudy: And, uh…I liked it all along. I always thought it should’ve been “Van Halen” even back when I was sitting back in that balcony in high school-Marshall Junior High School. Uh…but, uh…then it came- “Van Halen” that was it. But, uh…anyway, you know anytime you wanted to…anytime you wanted to find anybody, you know, you’d go to the backyard parties. The old Van Halen backyard parties. Drinkin’, partyin’…

SR: So then, you’d actually just…a guy would have a party and say “You guys…do you want to come play?” and then…

Rudy: Oh, it was a guarantee…it was a guarantee you would make money if…if they played. Your yard would get totally trashed (laughs)…there was no way that your parents wouldn’t find out about it, but you’d make money. And in those days, you know…there were 400 kids in the backyard- a buck a head. And the band would get…God, the band would get a hundred dollars, maybe?

SR: Would they?

Rudy: You know, there was different…different, uh, amounts agreed on. But, uh…that money wasn’t much at all back then, particularly in the clubs. We played the Starwood for zero.

SR: Really?

Rudy: When we first started playing there. Just for the privilege of playing the Starwood. And, uh…I believe what it was…we first started playing there we got like seventy-five dollars a night. And the band...we…they used it to rent, uh…no at that time we didn’t have trucks, we used the van and the cars. But the band would pay the crew. And we’d all, like get twenty-five dollars. And uh…there was two of us. And, uh…that was it. And then the band would split up the rest, you know, the twenty-five dollars. And there was nights too when the band didn’t get a penny and the crew got a few bucks.

SR: So, you went to the same school as…as Ed?

Rudy: Yeah. But in junior high school, I really didn’t know him. I knew, you know…it’s, uh…never…didn’t…not even a “Hello” or anything back then. But, uh…in high school it was kind’ve a “Hey…” you know, “How’s it going?”, you know, a…a…a familiar face. And then…and then, uh, we both got kicked out of the same high school…not for…I don’t know what he got kicked out for, (laughs) but, I…I got kicked out for my reasons too, and…

SR: Did you really?

Rudy: Yeah, we uh…it was funny, the year I got kicked out, you know, I was 14 years old and I got caught…I got busted with a couple joints.

SR: That’s what he got kicked out for.

Rudy: And, uh…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Yeah! See? We get along…it was destined to be! (laughs) Uh…(door knocking sounds, door opens) Shit…

SR: Pause.

Rudy: What were we saying then?

SR: Getting kicked out of school…

Rudy: Oh yes! You know, at that year I got kicked out…

SR: Were you in the same grade as Ed?

Rudy: No. I was a year behind. And, uh…

SR: At what high school, now, are we talking about?

Rudy: We’re talking about Pasadena High School.

SR: Pasadena High School, that’s where he (Ed) went to high school?

Rudy: Yes. And, uh…(long pause), that’s where he graduated from, let’s put it that way! (laughs). Anyway, uh…the year that I got kicked out and the year that he (Ed) got kicked out, the uh…Foothill High School where we got sent to was a continuation high school. But that year, they accredited it as a…they recognized it as a school, you know, a high school that you could graduate from. You, you know, the credits you earn there went towards your, uh, you know, graduation, as opposed to before that apparently it was just a, like a holding area or whatever. But, uh…generally everybody that went to that school didn’t ever…they didn’t want to go back…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …to the other high schools because it was a different system. It was set up…it was like, I believe, one of the first…uh, schools in the country set up with a modular system. Which meant you went to school at 8:00 in the morning, you got out at Noon. But for those four hours, you were in one subject…for like four weeks. And then, you finished that subject, you know, when it’s “Math A” and then you go to “Math B” if you wanted, until you got all your, you know, uh…you could do it in whatever order you wanted to, but basically the goal was towards the, you know, your graduation. Anyway, down there it was the same “Hey, how are you doin’?” that type of thing you know, we didn’t really know one another. And, uh…it wasn’t until I started going to, uh…I started…just started going to college, junior college, Pasadena City College, which was the same school that Edward went to. I didn’t know him there at all. He was just in the Music department and I was, uh…I was uh…a Political Science major. I wanted to be a…my ultimate goal was to be to be a judge (laughs)…

SR: Oh really?

Rudy: Yeah! I wanted to be a lawyer. Uh…when I was a kid growing up, I’m Canadian, and when I was a kid growin’ up, I wanted to be a mounted policeman.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: You know, I could see myself on the big horse with the red coat. Well, you know, then I learned that they don’t ride those horses no more. Well, (that) brought those childhood dreams to a…you know, uh…shattering hope. But, uh…then I decided…I still wanted to be a cop, I wanted to be a lawyer and then eventually a judge. So I started with Political Science as my major. Never saw him (Ed) around down there. Uh…

SR: Ed went to Pasadena City College?

Rudy: Yeah…yeah.

SR: He actually enrolled and he was there?

Rudy: Yeah…yes. As a matter of fact, I don’t know the real exact details on it, but, uh…he was, uh…he was a brilliant student. But he wasn’t one to…and he never has been one to…go by the rules. You know there are rules to music.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: You know, uh…arrangement and all that, (in) particular. And, as the story goes, he wrote a composition for a final or something like that or mid-term…something. And…uh, when he presented it to the teacher…uh, he-the teacher ridiculed him somehow…said “This isn’t right. You can’t do it like this.”. And Edward said “Wait a minute. I’ll tell you what…why don’t you let me play it for the class?”. And he (the teacher) said “Fine”. He played it for the class. The class went nuts! They applauded! He folded up his papers, handed them to the teacher and walked out.

SR: Right…

Rudy: Because, you know…he wasn’t conforming. But he KNEW what he was doing was good. And his proof, to himself, wasn’t the other people.

SR: Mmm, hmm…

Rudy: And that’s the way its always been. He’s never been one to, uh…consider the way the masses feel.

SR: Mmm, hmm…

Rudy: He…he plays from the heart. That’s it. But, uh…the way we became friends, was uh…I’m not getting ahead of myself, am I?

SR: No, I think you’re going along there…so, in junior high and high school, I mean, you really didn’t see him (Ed) hanging out with people…you have really no idea what he was like?

Rudy: Oh, yeah…I could…I could, uh…

SR: I mean, did he have a lot of friends? Did, did he…would he socialize?

Rudy: (excitedly) Oh, are you kidding me? (laughs) EVERYBODY knew him!

SR: They knew him?

Rudy: Come on…sure! He had a lot of friends. They were…you know, they were the beer drinkers, partyers…hell-raisers-but…he didn’t really hang out so much. He went home and played the guitar.

SR: Uh-huh…

Rudy: Everything was with the guitar. (long pause) Uh… (long pause) I can’t…oh, you know, I’m not saying he couldn’t, uh…he didn’t, uh…ever cut or anything like that, you know. Him and Dave Emerson. They used to do that all the time. You know, and they’d go down to his house for…go down to his house for lunch…(laughs) and from there they’d go back up to Dave’s house and watch television. (laughs) But, uh…

SR: Did…did Alex go to these same schools?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh…Alex went to Marshall, I was with P.H.S. Alex hung around with Greg Emerson.

SR: Mmm, hmm…

Rudy: They grew up together.

SR: And what about Dave?

Rudy: Emerson?

SR: No, uh…Dave Roth.

Rudy: Roth? Uh…(pause) Ok, he…came into the picture for me when he was a…he was a singer in a band called Red Ball Jet. They had a controversial picture that they were advertising with around town at the time. And it was…it was, you know, a true early Dave spirit. The whole band was nude, except they had the instruments on in front of ‘em…right? And Dave, of course, didn’t have an instrument, but he was kind’ve like…(he) got one leg (laughs), you know, a knee-up, turned sideways lookin’ at the camera. It was pretty controversial, but, boy, I’ll tell ya, it stirred a lot of…attention. Uh…they were pretty much of a…a rival band of Van Halen (Genesis). They were more into the glamour.

SR: Mmm, hmm…

Rudy: Uh…glitter part of it. And…like, he had a David Bowie haircut and he was really up in it. And, uh…Genesis was just, uh…you know, t-shirts and jeans.

SR: Mmm, hmm…

Rudy: They didn’t care what they looked like. They just cared about the music. And they played. Whereas, uh… Dave’s band was just, you know, a “good-time/fun” band. You know, uh…glamour. All the girls, you know, would go down and see Dave, and uh…all the guys would go down there and…you know…hate Dave! (laughs) But, uh…everything worked out real good!

SR: So how did those two guys meet? Were you there?

Rudy: Well…they…they knew one another. You know, from just playing around. You’d, you’d do that…your rivals, you knew who your enemies are. And, uh…the Van Halen brothers, they thought Dave was a fag. (chuckles) They didn’t like him. They thought he was a jerk…you know, a total fag. But, uh…the thing was, was they had a common factor. And that was they really wanted to do…make music. And, uh…you know, you have a lot of guys that play in bands and, you know, in the nighttime…and during the daytime, they’re, you know, they’re doing something else. You know, a mechanic, or an electrician or something like that. Or, you know, they got goals…you know, they’re not…they don’t want to do that, or they…you know, I mean they do. Everybody wants to be a star. But they don’t really have the extra push to work. And that’s what, uh…they shared. They lived it. You know, from the time Dave was a little kid, he used to have his “monkey hour” …or, you know, he used to sing to the radio all the time. You know the…the Van Halen brothers, they were doing music. When they were…you know, that young, they were with the piano, but once they came to America and discovered rock and roll…then they went on to uh…bigger and better things.

SR: Mmm, hmm…mmm, hmm…

Rudy: But, uh… (long pause) then, uh…it just came to…uh…you know, “Hey you wanna get in the band?” whatever, “Let’s do it together…” and, uh…they put it together, and…that’s the way it was for a while…and they had a keyboard player for a little while.

SR: What was his name?

Rudy: Uh… (long pause) …something “Pewsey”…Gary Pewsey, or…Gary Pewsey I think was what his name was (ed. Note, his name was Jim Pewsey). And, uh…he really didn’t fit too good. I mean it was…it was…he could’ve…I mean it’s no…no telling where Van Halen would have been today had he been a little more assertive, and a little more like “one of the guys”. Like whenever they used to have their little “pow-wows”, you know, before they’d go on. He would always be sitting off to the side, you know, with his girlfriend or something. You know, he was never in there with them…you know, knockin’ heads with them or anything like that. Uh…I remember I saw, I went out…I saw them play at a…a street dance at U.C.L.A And, uh…you could barely even hear the…the…uh…organ! You could barely even hear it! But, uh…you know, at that time, they figured “Well, maybe that was the missing ingredient?!” that you’ve gotta get a keyboard player.

SR: Right…so they were playing…it was actually…was it…was…it was…it was five of them then?

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: Guitar, bass, drums, keyboards…and Dave?

Rudy: Yeah. And then they got rid of him. And then, uh…uh, then they ended up having problems with Mark Stone. You know, I mean, like I was saying before, you know…it’s…you gotta have that little extra…that was what you’ve really got to want. It’s the only thing you gotta want. And, he didn’t quite have that. He enjoyed the music, he enjoyed playing, but he also, you know, he liked to party…you know, and…and he didn’t have that same dedication…you know…eat, live, breathe, sleep, you know…music. And, uh…Michael Anthony who was a singer and, uh,..a bass player for, uh…Arcadia’s most popular band, Snake. Uh…they saw him, you know, they thought he had a good voice, they thought he was good, you know, a decent front man. So, uh…they asked him if he wanted to play with them. And he was…he was playing with them before Mark was out of the band…

SR: (laughs) Oh really?

Rudy: (laughs) Yeah, they covered themselves there…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) I don’t…I don’t…I wasn’t around then. I don’t know if it was more that, uh…that, uh…they didn’t have…nobody had the nerve to tell him (Mark Stone)? Or, uh…they wanted to have him (Michael Anthony) (laughs) all polished and ready to go for the next weekend…(laughs) didn’t want to miss a weekend!

SR: (laughs) Yeah…hmm. (long pause) So Pasadena City College…

Rudy: Pasadena City College. Uh… (long pause) I started…a friend of mine, this girl…uh…came over to my house one day and she brought a girlfriend of hers…a little, cute little thing. And, uh…(laughs) you know, I was attracted to her and I, uh…told her friend, I said “Hey, you’ll be back over here tomorrow, hah-hah…”. Anyway, I…I started, uh…you know, uh…dating her. And, uh…turned out she was Edward’s ex-girlfriend. I didn’t know it at the time I met her or anything, but, uh…that’s the way it turned out. And so he was…they were still relatively on speaking terms, so she introduced us formally. And that’s where we got…that’s where he knew who, uh…Robin Leiren was, which was my real name.

SR: Right…

Rudy: And, uh…I got to know Edward Van Halen. And, uh…so we would see each other…pretty much, you know, we’d see…or, run into each other over at her house.

SR: What was her name?

Rudy: Uh…Kim Miller. (chuckles)

SR: Kim Miller?

(switches sides of cassette in the recorder)

Rudy: So, what were we just saying?

SR: Ummm…Kim introduced you and Edward. (chuckles)

Rudy: Right…right, right. (chuckles) SO we became good friends.

SR: Do you remember the…do you remember the first time you met you met him (Edward)? Does that stick out in your mind at all? Did he…did he…uh…you know…did he seem like the kind of guy you thought he might be? Was he…was he…easygoing? Was he…

Rudy: I think I was at her house. And…he came over. (long pause) And…(long pause) it was kinda like…I don’t know…I didn’t resent him at all, you know? And…I didn’t know…I respected him. I knew who he was…and I respected him, you know…I always liked the way he played guitar and everything.  And, uh…God, what a trip! Yeah, I remember. (long pause) And, uh…we got…I…it was just…we got to talkin’, I…I think I had some krell or whatever and we went out…and what we used to do was we’d be over at her house. We would…he had his van. It was an old Ford Econoline…

SR: (laughs) That’s what he used to drive?! (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) Yeah.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Dark blue with a…light blue back doors.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Boy, I’ll tell ya…we…that’s where…we used to load the equipment in.

SR: Really?

Rudy: We got everything into that thing except for Michael’s equipment.

SR: Yeah?

Rudy: And, uh…and the PA. Dave would bring the PA in his car. And, uh…we’d have the drum riser…the two-by-fours, I mean, uh, uh, plywood on top, so…(excitedly) If you were going and you had to slam on the brake, it was like…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: You’d hit the brake and pull your head down…hah-hah…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And everything would go (makes “whoosh” noise)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And you would just reach up above your head and slide it back again…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I can’t tell you how many times we lost…almost lost the top of our heads. (pause) And it looks kinda funny from the outside, with three guys…one is sittin’ on the motor in the middle, three guys go like this…(laughs) you know…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: But, uh…we got to talkin’ and what we used to do is we used go out in the front and we used to get in the back of the van, three of us, and we’d sit out there bullshittin’, krell, you know and listen to music and stuff. And, uh…or we’d go for a drive, you know and park somewhere else and krell. But we got to be good friends. And then one time we were over there. There was this other guy that she was seein’ back then, and I HATED his guts and Edward didn’t like him either. And, uh…But Kim was very fun. And he called up and Edward and I were over there…and she came back in the room, she said “Oh, that was Mark. He’s gonna come over here” and you know, we were all (makes exasperated noise), you know? All saying that. And, uh, she’s all “No, no…he’s not gonna stay. He’s just gonna pick something up”. And we said “Well, hey…(long pause)”. You know…I, I said “So, I don’t even wanna see the guy” and Edward said something like “I don’t either”. And Edward, he goes “Well, I’m gonna split” and I said “Yeah, I guess I am too” and, uh…then she goes “No, no, no, no, don’t go, don’t go” you know like this guy has just fucked up everything. She’s realized now her mistake by just makin’ friends with this guy. The guy’s a jerk! (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: He’s REALLY fuckin’ with her life! Anyway, so we, uh…I say to him…I go “Hey, listen…why don’t you come over to my house?”. I said, “What are you gonna do?” and he goes “I don’t know…just go home” and I said “Why don’t you come over to my house and listen to some records and stuff?”. And, uh…at this time I had a, uh…my parents had a house that had a, a room, you know, with the facilities right off of the garage in the back, you know, a typical, beautiful setup for, you know, a teenager.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: And so he said “Sure”. So, he came over to my house and…Edward really was never one to buy records or collect records or anything like that ‘cause he just put his money into his music. And, uh…what little money he had, you know, it’s, uh… (long pause). So, he was flipping through my record collection, you know, “Can I borrow this? Can I borrow that?” …oh, he is…(excitedly in a loud comic voice) “Edward, you’re famous for borrowing records, but you’re INFAMOUS for not returning ‘em!” (laughs).

SR: Really? (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) Anyway, uh… (long pause) so, he…we, we got to talkin’, and, uh…I said to him “Hey, you know, if ya ever need a hand” …uh…(pause). And he didn’t, he didn’t look at me like (in annoyed voice) “Oh”, you know like “Here it comes” or anything like that, you know, he was just sitting there, you know, listening, and I said “If you ever need a hand, you know, I’d be…I’d like to help ya out, you know, with anything…if you need anything moved, or you know…or any help at the gig or anything”. I said, “I know that there’s a lot a partyin’ and a lot of fun…”. And, but I said “But I know that there’s a lot of work to be done first. And I’m willin’ to do the work…you know, in order to, you know, join…sh-share in the partyin’. And, uh…so if you ever need a hand, give me a call” and he looked at me, you know, like, like…like (I) knocked him off of his feet…he looked at me and he said “You know what?” he goes “Of all my friends…you know, none of them has ever said anything like that, they’ve always said ‘When you make it, you know, I’ll work…I’d, I’ll work for ya”. And, uh…you know, (in Ed’s voice) “Thank you very much, that’s very nice.” I said “Sure, no problem”. You know, no big deal, I just said it in passing. And it wasn’t really a bid for a job.

SR: Mmm, hmm…

Rudy: So much as just, you know, to be able to go and hang out.

SR: Right

Rudy: And have a good time. But, you know, be able to do the work. And I knew the work wouldn’t be that much. You know, and the benefits, (in excited voice) huh! Well, that’s another whole “cassette tape”! (laughs) But, anyway…uh…about a month later…my parents called me in to the phone and, and it was Edward, and he said, “You remember what you said?”. And I…I…he…without saying anything, you know, without having…him having to say another word, I said “Yeah”, And he said, “Did you mean it?” and I said, “Yeah” and he goes, “Well, listen…we’re having a gig next month at the Pasadena Civic” you know, (continuing in Edward’s voice) “…and we need some help. Would you like to work for me?”. And I said, “I’d LOVE to!”. He goes “Great!”. And I said, “But, listen…I don’t know what I’m doing. I don’t know anything about it. So, I’ll tell you what…Can I work from you…FOR you starting now? and you…’til then, you don’t have to pay me. Don’t pay me…until I know what I’m doing…you know…and then, you know, you pay me at that gig”. And I guess it…it impressed upon him the fact that I was sincere. I really did want to do the job. And I didn’t want any money for it. And, uh…that was it! But a…approximately at the same time, now, I was going out and hanging out, uh…hanging out, uh…they were playing at a club, called, uh…Walter Mitty’s…

SR: Walter Mitty’s?

Rudy: …in Pomona. A little hole-in-the-wall…they did SOMETHING to that beer…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I KNOW it. I KNOW IT!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I’m tellin’ ya what…people would get CRAZY in there. A guy got killed in there one night!

SR: No!

Rudy: (excited) Postage stamp stage…SMALL. I mean like two feet in front of the drum riser. To the, uh…in front of the…no, did I say, “drum riser”? Two feet in front of the drum kit which was pushed up against the wall.

SR: (gasps, laughs)

Rudy: And then, probably about four feet or six feet on each side of the drum kit…you know…then there’s the amps. Well, one night this guy got stabbed and killed…

SR: While Van Ha-…while…while Van Halen was there?

Rudy: Yeah. While Van Halen was playing. (pause) Hey, this place was crazy. I mean, like guys would go in there and they’d get in fights and, you know…I was in there one night, you know it was back in the “polyester days” and I had these polyester…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …slacks on, right? With one of those artificial zippers.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Artificial zipper broke, you know, one of those kind where you can zip it back down…

SR: Mmm, hmm…right

Rudy: …and you zip it up and it stays, until, you know…

SR: Right…right…

Rudy: …you get it under pressure and it pops again.

SR: Right.

Rudy: I’m dancing with this girl. Then I…PING! So I zipped it…and so I…next thing you know (excitedly) this guy thinks I’m doin’ lewd dancing with his girlfriend! (laughs) Big old fight just about ready to break out! It’s UNREAL! Turned out later that night, he sss-…he came out to the van and just…threw a haymaker…Sunday punched me!

SR: Really?!

Rudy: It was funny, there was a cop on the other side of the van, in their car. And…he got right in the line where the cops wuh-…couldn’t see us. To this…I was just totally, phew, blitzed. Threw a HUGE haymaker…BOOM! Connected! Didn’t knock me down. I’ve always been one to take a good punch…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And…I came…I just turned and I looked back on him and his jaw dropped.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And then right there a bunch of people jumped in and (it) stopped right there before anything got started. And, uh…that was, uh…that was that.  But, uh…anyway…(phone rings)

SR: Damn…

(break in conversation)

Rudy: When…(pause)

SR: We were at Walter Mitty’s…

Rudy: Right…right, right. We just…went off, sidetracked on that fight. That came later. Ok…like I said…

SR: About…about what year are we talkin’ about here?

Rudy: 1974.

SR: OK.

Rudy: We’re talking about, probably…beginning of May 1974.

SR: Right…

Rudy: Because I remember…We’re talking about (says with certainty and laughs) May 16, 1974 right now. This is the first day…that Alex Van Halen and the band really…(pause) Well, Michael before…but…and Dave before. But Alex REALLY became conscious of me this night. We…they were playing Walter Mitty’s. And…this was after I talked to Edward and told him, that…you know…it was this week that I told him that I wanted to, you know…that he called me back. And, great…and I said “Yeah” so I went out there to Walter Mitty’s that night. Uh…they were playing…I wasn’t supposed to work…start, uh…doing anything for ‘em until the next day, a Saturday. This was a Friday night. And, uh… (long pause) and, uh…(laughs) I was BLITZED. I mean just PO-LLUTED.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And I was like (excitedly) dancin’ and gettin’ cr-…you know when you’re REALLY out there it’s like you don’t NEED anybody to dance with, you just…(laughs) you’re doin’ fine by yourself! And I’m like this. And Alex is come…he’s…I’ve got his attention!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: He’s like trippin’ off me…he can’t believe it…(in Alex’s voice) “Who IS this guy that’s like totally fucked out of his mind?” and he’s like, lookin’ at me with horror going “MAN, THIS GUY’S NUTS!”. Well, the very next day, they were playing this girl’s sixteenth birthday party. And…that was the first day I was gonna help ‘em out. And…so Edward picked me up. And this girl’s mother was a realtor. And this house that she was selling was totally empty. Right across the street from the El Monte airport. (pause) And we pull up down there. I get out of the car (laughs)…Alex looks at me (excitedly) and just starts LAUGHING…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …HYSTERICALLY! You know…HE’S prob-…what a…HE REMEMBERS and he goes “OH MY GOD!” …

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And he just starts laughing hysterically until he finds out (laughs) that I’m WORKIN’ FOR ‘EM! (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: He goes “You’re kidding me…HIM?”

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Anyway…so that day I helped ‘em out. And…just getting familiar with the equipment. And really, literally…I mean, I had my own stereo, you know…the…all the different components and everything, you know. But it…basically, a guitar system is just like a stereo system.

SR: Mmm, hmm…

Rudy: That’s all there is to it. Uh…

SR: Do you remember what Ed was using? At that point?

Rudy:  Yeah. He was using, uh… (long pause and exhales) his old baby...his old Marshall and a cabinet. Uh…I don’t even know if he was using the MXR Phase 90 then. Uh… (long pause) I…don’t…and he wasn’t using an echo. I think the only thing he coulda been using…I think the only thing he was using was a phase shifter.

SR: Oh.

Rudy: Yeah. If that. (pause) He didn’t have the echo yet. But, uh…you know, I went in and helped…move the equipment in and all that. And it…you know, it took a while. It took, you know, and all the different gigs and…you know the, the night of the Civic, you know, when I went over there and set everything up. Uh…and I had a buddy of mine helping me, as a matter of fact, his name was Sandy Litman. And him and I were the first two guys who started working for them. I can get a hold of him, if you…

SR: Oh, that would be interesting…

Rudy: And, uh…

SR: Does he still work for them?

Rudy: No! Oh, no, no, no. He was…he was the first (pause)…he was the first, uh…uh…what do you call it? You know…person that…was let go.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Because (at) the time when the band got signed, (pause) they did not want to take any amateur…uh…road personnel out there. And the band was fighting, you know…I had been there since day one, you know, and day two. And they’d been together a year before I started workin’ for ‘em. Uh…(pause) and, you know, I’d put in a lot of blood, sweat and tears with them, and Edward trusted me. That was the main thing. It took…(pause) It took a year. It took a year…before…the band stopped coming down when we were setting up the equipment. Because…it was just, you know, it was like…I don’t know. It’s kinda like if you save every penny you had and you bought a car. And somebody was gonna move it for ya…you’d be there to watch ‘em move it. It was the way it was; it was like…even Al’s drums, and drums are pretty durable instruments. I mean, come on…here this guy is beatin’ on ‘em with a stick? And he used to watch us carry his drums, oh man!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I tell you what…you just sit there and think damn hard, forget about it! You were in…(laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: You were…you were about to get chewed out! And, uh…oh it was…it was somethin’. I mean the amps. Ya couldn’t carry the amp by the strap on the top. You couldn’t carry two amps at once. You HAD to carry the amp with two hands.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I mean I don’t know if this lasted over from when they first saw me at Walter Mitty’s (laughs) or (laughs) if they just…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …you know, were…” Don’t trust the strap!” but, uh…it was a good…GOOD year probationary period…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …before, uh…(pause) Before they stopped going down to the gig with us.

SR: Uh, huh…

Rudy: (pause) And then…it…then after about a year it turned into, uh…well, they would just show up and we’d just got the stuff into the buildings and start setting it up. They were still there when we were setting it up. And that was always one thing that always, ALWAYS used to bother me. I…auughh!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: It still to this day at times when I’m not done setting up and Edward comes in…still to this day…(pause) Edward will come in and I’ll just…grrrr! (Rudy speaks as himself) “What? What? What’s the matter? What’s…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (continues in his voice) “Why are you guys so early?!” (laughs) You know? I don’t know, it’s just, I get…I don’t know if it’s a l-…left over from back then when…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: You couldn’t do anything…and it’s just…I don’t like that feeling…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …of…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …someone looking over my shoulder.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: But it’s…it’s something that’s always…whenever they show up early it just irks me. I don’t know if it’s from back then or what? But, uh…They used to be there. They used to watch us set up. No problem. And at that time…was like…the whole idea, you know, was just doing the…SHOW. And the way they…I was the one that went up into the…I was the one who started going up into the lights and adjusting everything, you know…

SR: Really?

Rudy: …you know, hitting this and that…and-uh…well, back in the…in the, uh…the party days and everything…all we had was little flood light things and Michael was the one who ran the light show. He had the little buttons.

SR: Really?

Rudy: Oh yeah! (excitedly) It was…He did a great job too…really (snaps fingers) changed the lights at good times and…(pauses) it was great. But it was only like, you know, “Blue”-“Red” –“Green”-you know, it was…one…one color or the other basically.

SR: Were they doing any original stuff at this point? Like the Pasadena Civic gig. Was that on the 16^th?

Rudy: (excitedly) No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no…

SR: That was Walter Mitty’s?

Rudy: That was Walter Mitty’s.

SR: Ok.

Rudy: 17^th of May was the official first day I went to work for Van Halen.

SR: That was the “Sweet Sixteen” party…

Rudy: (confirming) That was the “Sweet Sixteen” party. (long pause) And, uh…the Civic wasn’t ‘til a month later.

SR: So by the Civic gig then…I mean, they had already built up enough of an audience?

Rudy: Oh yeah…oh yeah…they, they…they filled the Civic. The Civic was Sold Out. No problem. Twenty-six hundred people…

SR: Really?

Rudy: (matter of factly) Thank you very much…

SR: Really…

Rudy: EVERY-one of them lovin’ it. Screamin’, goin’ crazy…

SR: Really…

Rudy: I remember, as a matter of fact, uh…wasn’t that gig, but it was another Civic gig we did where I’m sitting on the top of the stairs… (long pause) and…right (snaps fingers) past me shoots Michael Anthony’s sister, goes straight to the…Edward’s microphone right up there, SCREAMING at everybody to SIT DOWN!

SR: (snickers)

Rudy: Because she couldn’t see!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I mean it was like I couldn’t believe…it was like she went by me and just started!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And I was right behind her and (I) picked her up. And next thing, Michael is looking over and I got his sister over my shoulder…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs)…legs kicking and her hands pounding!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (matter of factly) It’s crazy…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: It’s just like…(pause) And if I would’ve had a little bit of, uh…you know, if I’d have been a little intuitive there, I would have seen what was coming in the future…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …what’s demanded of you. (in a gruff, bossy voice) “Go tell this person that!”. “I am right here!”, “I deserve THIS!”, “Why hasn’t this happened?!” … “Rudy drop EVERYTHING!”…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: It’s AMAZING some of the things you get asked!

SR: (laughs)…So what was that first Civic gig like? Do you remember?

Rudy: Oh, it was good! It was a good show…

SR: Was it?

Rudy: Yeah, it was a good show. The crowd went nuts…(pause)Everything worked…(pause). We had our problems, but everything worked that night. I was like, scared…SHITLESS! I really was. It was a…you know, it was the first gig, really, that I was in there working…in front of all my friends. ALL of my friends were there…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) (long pause) …A funny story…before this happened…before this gig, there was another gig remaining of playing at the Pasadena Civic…Ok? And Sandy, I mentioned…the guy that I was…uh, you know that was starting working with us. He was friends with the guy who promoted the gig. This is the story of “How Rudy Came To Be Rude”.

SR: (chuckles)

Rudy: Ok…uhhh…(pause) He was bouncing at the…here, he was, uh…you know, security at that…that, uh…particular gig when we were playing with a few other bands. And…

SR: Who did you play with? Do you remember?

Rudy: Uh… (long pause) …couldn’t tell ya.

SR: (chuckles)

Rudy: Couldn’t tell ya… (long pause) But, uh…I think they played with, uh…(pause) God, what was it? There was a band…I’ll think of their names and, you know, get their names in passing. The guy was in a band forever out here… “Sorcerer” or something. “Sorcery” or something…

SR: (clears throat) Smile?

Rudy: No, no, no…Smile could have been playing. Those are some nice guys. Anyway, uh…What story was I on? Oh yeah…so I am TOTALLY shit-faced. As usual. I hope you’re getting the impression here. But I was BLITZED and I came in to the thing and…and the guy I was with, his name was Tom Signaigo. He was a friend of Sandy Litman’s. And he saw…and said “Hey Sandy! How ya doin’?” So we went up to him and I was like…whoa…everywhere and…

SR: (chuckles)

Rudy: (exhales) (in Tom Siniago’s voice) “This is, uh… this is my friend Robin” blah-blah-blah. And he goes “Uh, what’s your name again?”, and I go (in slurred drunken voice) “Rarrrggh!”

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) So he thought I said “Rudy”!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I wonder how he got that out of there?!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: So, the next day, Tom and I go over to his (Sandy’s) house. And then he, Sandy, is sitting in his house with a mutual friend of all of ours. And they hear a car door slam outside. And he (Sandy) looks out through the curtains…and, uh…the other guy goes “Who is this?” and he goes “Oh, it’s Tom and Rudy.” …

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: So this guy’s standing there goin’ “Rudy?! Who the fuck is Rudy?!” …so we come walking through the door-Tom first, and then me-and he (Sandy’s guest) starts laughing, “Rudy..” right? So it wasn’t ‘til a month later, or, you know, it wasn’t ‘til later when a story came up…The guys were calling me “Robin” (pause) and…we told the story of when Sandy first met me. And he thought…now I had just gotten this haircut…really short haircut. And we were telling the band the story. And Alex looks at me and he goes (excitedly) “Yeah, you look like a Rudy! That is a rude haircut! You look like a Rudy!” and it stuck ever since.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And he started calling me “RUDY! HEY RUDY!” and it was “Uncle Rudy” for a while because I was like acting as…everything…” Road Manager” type thing, you know. I was the “hatchet man” in the dressing room, you know…I’d tell everybody to leave. And, you know, when they, they needed a beer, they needed anything, it was “Hey Uncle Rudy! Hey Uncle Rudy! Hey Uncle Rudy!”.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: So, it was “Uncle Rudy” for…God, it was “Uncle Rudy” for about a year. And it just…and it turned into… “Rudeness”, or, no… “Rudiment”…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: “Rudiment T. Roadie”. The “T” was for “timing”.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs)

SR: Hmmm…So, by the time of the Pasadena gigs, could you get a…a sense of the relationship of…of the band members, of Edward and Dave…for example? Could you sense, uh…how they got along, how they didn’t get along? Their personalities with each other?

Rudy: No, back then they pretty…they got along real good. I mean, there was…I…everybody got along real good back then. The uh…the brothers…basically, were just at home…all the time. I really didn’t know Dave.

SR: You didn’t?

Rudy: No, not at all. And, uh…I really didn’t know Michael. Uh…(pause) I got to know Michael a little better, I take that back. I got to know Michael a little better because Sandy became Michael’s roadie. And so we used to go to Michael’s house to help Michael, like move his equipment and stuff like that. And so, I got to know his parents and I got to know the family and everything. And so, it got to be…I got to know him better. Got to be closer with him. Uh…(pause) Alex was really the hardest one to get to know.

SR: Really?

Rudy: He really, really was. Because he was a very, very…possessive over his brother. And protective over his brother. Uh…did Edward ever tell you the story of where he almost OD’ed? They were playing at the, uh…he was this far from being dead.

SR: Ed?

Rudy: Yeah. They were playing at the, uh…Golden West Ballroom. Ok. Uh…I believe it was the same evening they were playing with UFO. Ok, they blew UFO off the stage. If not, this is a good story anyway. They blew UFO off the stage and the lead singer (Phil Mogg) came over to Dave…and said, uh…you know, I don’t remember exactly what happened, (in Phil Mogg’s voice) “Hey”, you know, “Something about your guitarist…”, you know, “Hey, your guitarist really fucked up…fucked with the mind of…” and this is Michael Schenker.

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: When Michael Schenker was hot.

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: And, uh…Dave goes (in upbeat voice of Dave) “Hey, c’mon man! You go…c’mon Edward is doin’ his thing and Michael is doing his thing…” you know, (in voice of Phil Mogg, gravely) “No man. You don’t understand…you really fucked with Michael!” (laughs). Apparently, mmm…you know, he just like blew him away that night. And Michael was upset about it.

SR: (chuckles)

Rudy: Any…In any case, uh…one night they got done playing a gig at the, uh…the Golden West Ballroom. And Edward walked into the bathroom to take a piss. And there was a dude in there, uh…with some blow. And uh…he said “Hey, yeah, you Edward, yeah, you bad, you want some blow?”. And he just held the thing open for him like that. And Edward goes “Yeah, how much can I do?” He goes, “Hey, do as much as you want!”. So, come on…anybody in his right mind… (makes noise) two big shovels up each nose. Turned out to be uh…PCP. Well, he got…by the time he got back up on the stage…he just started, you know, to start loading the equipment he…it started coming on to him. And he just…he started going into, like, uh…convulsions, kind’ve. His, you know, body starts freaking out and he started doing this thing. Started like he was playing…you know, “air guitar”, kind’ve like freaking out! And they got him out to the car and they couldn’t get him into the car…couldn’t get him bent over, he was so rigid. So finally, Alex had to punch him in the, uh…stomach…

SR: Really?!

Rudy: …you know, to get him to double-over…push him into the car. We got him to the hospital…immediately, tubes and everything down the…down the throat and everything, oxygen and all that. Doctor said, “If you’d been in here a few minutes later, he’d probably be…we probably would have lost him.”

SR: Jesus…

Rudy: And that was the parents’ first…(pause) shock…of drug abuse. Or…of…of drugs…

SR: You mean…you mean Mr. and Mrs. Van Halen realizing that…

Rudy: No, not “realize”, but they didn’t really understand. But that was the first that they had ever heard…or ever thought or ever conceived their kids…

SR: THEIR kids…

Rudy: …involved with drugs.

SR: Did they have to come out to the hospital? For him?

Rudy: Uh…I believe they did, yeah. But, uh…it was, uh…it was scary. (pause) It really was. And like, even to this day, you can ask Edward. He’d th-…he says…and I think it’s a…a great justification…he says that-he goes (in Edward’s voice) “I’m crazy now…I go nuts trying to get all this music out of my head.” He goes (continuing in Edward’s voice) “I’m afraid of what I would have been like if I hadn’t burned up all them brain cells!” (laughs)

(pause)

SR: So about how many shows did they play at the…at the Pasadena Civic? They played some before you were involved with them?

Rudy: Yeah, I…I think they played two before I was involved with them.

SR: Two?

Rudy: And another..another four after.

SR: So, by this time, they were probably getting a little bit too…what? A little bit too big for Pasadena…they were startin’ to…they thought “Let’s move into Hollywood” or they still got some…

Rudy: Well, that’s basically what it was, was the only gigs they had been…they did in Pasadena, were the Civic.

SR: They were?

Rudy: Yeah. Uh…they also played a…a gig at the Glendale College with, uh…uh…Quiet Riot…when Randy Rhoads was still with them.

SR: Van Halen headlined?

Rudy: Yes. And, uh…I’ll never-I’ll never forget that day. That was a GREAT gig. You know…I really liked Randy Rhoads.

SR: You did?

Rudy: He was a nice guy. I thought he was a good guitarist. He really moved good onstage. (pause) I think the only thing that he had over Edward back then (pause-thoughtfully) was the way he moved onstage.

SR: Hmm…(affirming)

Rudy: He moved good. He really did. But…Edward(s) had him was down…you know…playing-wise. “Hands Up” … “Hands Down”, whatever you call it. Hands down. Uh…Randy even admitted, you know, in…in an interview, he said…

SR: Mmm hmmm…

Rudy: …you know, Edward was his favorite guitarist. And he…he…you know…he played a lot of Edward’s stuff.

SR: Were you ever around…when…when the two of them were together? Any of those conversations?

Rudy: Uh…yeah, but I…you know…you don’t…(pause). You can’t look in the future and say “These two guys are gonna make it” …sit there and listen to every word. Uh…(pause). But, yeah, I was there. They weren’t really…Edward was really not…

SR: He wasn’t into that “rival-competition”, “I gotta blow this guy away” …

Rudy: No, no, no, no, no. You know what it basically was…was everywhere we went, nobody liked Van Halen. Everybody hated them.

SR: But you just…

Rudy: Everybody loved the crew, and this is the truth: (pause) Everybody loved the crew. The band used to come and tell us all the time (in a band member’s voice) “Man, you…you guys are doing real good!”. They came and said, “You guys are really good.” And we were always helpful. You needed anything… (in the voice of a crew member) “Hey, no problem.”. You know, it was kinda like…it was the early stages of what’s happening now, you know…it’s the same things. You know… (in the voice of a crew member) “You need anything we’ll give you a hand”, but back then it was…(pause). We didn’t have to do anything, but you know…the way I looked at it is I gotta work with these people. You know, it’s different if I could be back in the dressing room and go (in the voice of a band member) “Hey…” you know…don’t…nothing bothers me. But I had to work with these people…you know, it’s no problem for me. And, uh…we get along good with everybody. All the bands…all the bands hated Van Halen.

SR: Oh…the BANDS hated Van Halen?

Rudy: Oh, all of them.

SR: But not the people…

Rudy: No.

SR: Not the audience…

Rudy: No, no, no, no, no. Not the peoole.

SR: The bands that had to play with Van Halen hated them.

Rudy: All of them. All of them.

SR: (laughs) Why?

Rudy: None of them would talk to us.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: None of them.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: It was like…they’d sit on the other side of the room and just sneer, you know…and just…I think it was, uh…I really do think it was, uh…a jealousy thing. I really do, because… (pause…takes a breath). It’s just like now, you know…there’s no bullshit there. You can look up onstage and you can tell when you’re being bullshitted…you know, especially these days the bands…they don’t want this…(reconsidering) well, I take that back. With some of this punk rock and shit that’s out…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: I think they can be bullshitting. But, uh…you know, I, I just…you know, they were…they didn’t conform to anything. You know, they were loud and boisterous and party animals. The girls loved ‘em. And that probably was a big part of it (the jealousy) too.

SR: I think that was a BIG part of it.

Rudy: Sure.

(pause)

SR: Yeah. I mean how…how would Ed react to other bands givin’ him, kind’ve shit, I mean would he, you know…

Rudy: Nobody would give a shit. They just wouldn’t talk.

SR: They just wouldn’t talk to ‘em?

Rudy: No, they wouldn’t talk. Uh…basically Edward would…had no interest in any of the other bands. Uh…I’m not saying because he thought he was better than anybody, but he really…there was none…no music that he appreciated.

SR: So you guys…he wouldn’t say “Hey brother, let’s go check out, uh…

Rudy: No. No, no, no.

SR: …Zeppelin at the

Rudy: Unh, unh…

SR: …that…you know what I’m saying, or something…

Rudy: No. He used to go, he…I never went to any concerts with him. Uh…not that I can remember, in public in any way. But, uh…yeah, he’d go see bands. You know…I invited him to a lot of shows. My hobby before I started working for Van Halen, was going to concerts. Zeppelin came to town for five nights; I was there every night.

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: I mean, I really…I had a buddy whose…whose Dad owned a ticket, you know…thing, so I’d get, you know, first twenty rows every show. And, uh…I used to invite him to all those shows, but we couldn’t go because they were always playing on those dates.

SR: Oh…

Rudy: That was the main thing, he couldn’t see the shows because he was always playing. Uh…But, you know, as far as the way the other bands affect him and all that, Edward looks at, umm, it seems, uh…back then he looked at things with a more critical eye technically. Uh…(pause). Now he might be a little more open melodically, you know, he hears a melody he likes or something, but I don’t think anything caught his ear back then. He’s the kind of guy, I’ve said it before, he’s the kind of guy…he could walk by a construction yard and a piledriver could be hittin’ a big...big, uh…pole into the ground at it would be going “Doiiinng! Doiiinng!” at there might be a little tone there that catches…you’ll see…you’ll hear him…crane his…see, see…you’ll see him crane his head for a second. (in Edward’s voice) “Ohhh…” that’s it, and then he’ll keep on going. But he was the kind of guy that, something catches his ear…and then he makes his decision…he likes it or doesn’t. There’s really no in-between…(in Edward’s voice) “Ahh, that’s Ok.” There really is not much “middle-road” there.

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: There really is not much “middle-road” there.

SR: Yeah. Ok. (pause) So there was a Pasadena Civic gig…say “gigs”, Glendale College…

Rudy: We did a few Pasadena Civic gigs…Glendale College with, uh…Quiet Riot. We did a, uh…Pasadena City College gig with a band called Manna.

SR: Manna…

Rudy: Now they were signed. They had a…they had an album out. And this one…you know, Van Halen opened for ‘em. (laughs) (excitedly) and I’ll tell ya what! This was before I started workin’ for the band too. Uh…

SR: Ah, so this is…

Rudy: This is before…

SR: Pre-’74 again…

Rudy: Yeah, this is pre-’74. Uh…’73 probably. And Manna was very pr-…very professional, very good sound effects and everything like that. They got rain and all that stuff and lightning and everything, but…I’ll tell ya what, the band…aww, the crowd didn’t want anything to do with them. EVERYBODY started screaming (imitates crowd chanting) “Van Halen! Van Halen! We want Van Halen!” and they ended up walking off the stage.

SR: Oh, Manna opened for Van Halen…

Rudy: No, no, no, no, no, no…Van Halen opened for Manna.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (excitedly) That was the first band that we totally blew away!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) The first in a list of MANY!

SR: (laughs) That’s great…(pause) Hmm…So, I mean, how did they transition from those gigs to…I mean…was it Gazzari’s the next step after the Pasadena Civic? Which…

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: …in essence seems a step down?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah!

SR: I mean, I realize they had to get…

Rudy: Gazzari’s was the break in Hollywood.

SR: How’d that happen?

Rudy: Uh… (long pause) I don’t remember.

SR: Hmm…

Rudy: Dave went out there. Dave and maybe Alex went out there…you know, they…oh, they…I think they had a “try-out”. They auditioned.

SR: Right…

Rudy: They auditioned.

SR: A “Sunday Audition” and…

Rudy: Right…Right.

SR: …if they survived they could come back and play.

Rudy: Right…right…I think it was a “Sunday Night Audition” and they played and…that was it. They were in Hollywood. (snaps fingers) “Big Time”! That was before I started working with them too.

SR: Wait, I don’t understand…

Rudy: It was!

SR: I thought Gazazari’s was after the, umm…

Rudy: They had played for…they had played at Gazzari’s before…(pauses)…That’s funny. Now that’s got me confused. (long pause-then remembering more clearly) No, I take that back…yes, I was working for them then. I was. But back then, all I had to do was go in on Thursday night, a Friday night, set-up and then come back on Sunday night and tear-down. That’s what it was. I didn’t always hang out every weekend.

SR: So, are we talking about what then? Late ’74? ’75?

Rudy: We’re talkin’ ’74. Yeah. Late ’74 probably. That’s somebody else you should talk to is Bill Gazzari.(tape stops)

SR: And Mario (ed. Note Mario Miranda, new co-manager of Gazzari’s along with Mark Algorri who later took over the club’s hiring from Bill Gazzari and booked Van Halen through 1976) I’m gonna talk to…

Rudy: Yeah. And if you can find, uh…what’s his name? “Cartoon” (Wally “Cartoon” Olney, a childhood friend of the Van Halen brothers) I think was his name? He was a guy who worked at The Whisky. I saw him walking on the street one day…

SR: Is that that strange guy?

Rudy: Real skinny guy…

SR: He…does he work at The Rainbow now?  

Rudy: I don’t know if he does…

SR: “Cartoon” …

Rudy: Think that’s his name, “Cartoon”. (pause) Something like that.

SR: Hmm…

Rudy: He probably has some stories. (long pause) Mmmm! (snaps his fingers) Ya have to talk to Jimmy (ed. Note: Jimmy LaPenna, manager of The Whisky in the mid-to-late 70s) …(pause) God! I can’t remember his last name. He lives back East, but ya have to talk to him. He managed The Whisky.

SR: He managed The Whisky?

Rudy: Yeah. When we played there. He was like a father to us.

SR: Jimmy…

Rudy: I can’t remember his last name. Italian guy. Really, really nice guy. He’d come to see us every year…

SR: Not Mario?

Rudy: No, Mario, basically, ran The Rainbow…and the…and The Roxy. And Jimmy…you know, ran the, uh…Whisky. And Elmer’s office was upstairs.

SR: Yeah…(pause) Hmm. (long pause) Gotta track the guy down…maybe Mario knows where he is?

Rudy: Uh…I could get a hold of him through Pete Angelus probably.

SR: Really?

Rudy: I think he’s got his number.

SR: Ok, great.

Rudy: Sandy Litman.

(pause)

SR: And also, you said you might be…help…help me get Marshall (Marshall Berle, the band’s manager)?

Rudy: Oh yeah…Marshall Berle. Yeah, sure. (long pause) Yeah, sure, that’d be no problem.

SR: It’s…it’s end…it’s, it’s ENDLESS, you know?

Rudy: Oh yeah, sure is.

SR: Because…because, because Jimmy could say “Whoa, well you should go check out…” ah…you know-I mean there must be about thirty main guys, this is the A-List here, this is the A-Team, you know.

Rudy: Unh huh…

SR: There’s B-Teams and stuff, so…you know. Yeah, got it.

Rudy: Yeah, write down this name…you might be able to find someone…Steve Tortomasi. He used to, uh…promote the Pasadena Civic gigs.

SR: Really? Do you think you know how to spell his name?

Rudy: T-O-R-T-A…

SR: M-A-S-I?

Rudy: M-A-Z-I, I think. Or…S-I, yeah.

(pause)

SR: Pasadena Civic…that’d be interesting.

(tape ends)

(Part Two of interview)

SR: Why don’t you repeat that one for me?

Rudy: Uh…about the guy who...? Oh…well this…I called a friend of mine…his Ri-…his name was Rick Langstaff. And I asked him if he knew anybody who might have known Edward in the past, and what he told me was…he couldn’t think of anybody, really…because they weren’t…and they…they never ran in any s-…of the s-…same circles, but he was at one of the parties that Mammoth was playing at…ummm…which, you know was, uh…Mark Stone, Edward Van Halen, Alex Van Halen…and he was down in the front with a buddy of his standing next to a couple (of) girls down there watchin’ the band. And this guy came walking up…s-s…started talkin’ to these girls and he started braggin’ how he was gonna (excitedly) sing for this band!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) And…uh…my…Rick-who knew, you know, the guys and whatever…he was kinda lookin’ at this guy, looking him up and down, this guy in his, you know, flashy boots and all, like, you know…fanc-ed all, uh...dressed all fancy David Bowie style. And he was thinkin’, (in voice of Rick) “Man, who is this geek over here?!” (laughs) and that was David!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) You know! I guess at the time, when, uh…he was prepared to approach the brothers or…

SR: Hmmm…

Rudy: or they had talked, or…

SR: Hmmm…

Rudy: I don’t know what it was, but…

SR: Approximately…approximately when was that? Do you know? Could you nail it down to a…?

Rudy: That was probably ’73…early ’73. I could probably get…between him (Rick) and his friend, they could probably nail it down to a day. (pause) But, uh…I thought that was a funny story.

SR: Yeah it is…

Rudy: (laughs)

SR: …’cause Da-Dave knew. I mean Dave KNEW…what, what the Van Halen brothers were…

Rudy: Well, yeah, I really think that Dave saw it, in that, particularly in Edward…umm…the talent there. And…anybody…ANYBODY could see by looking at the, uh…you know, the people are the ones…they don’t lie. You look where the masses are and you’ll find something hot going on in there. And that’s basically what it was, was…there wasn’t really on a…on a given weekend when Van Ha-, uh…Mammoth was playing and Red Ball Jet was playing…uh, you…uh, you know, hands down…the, uh…the, uh…Mammoth party would be packed! I mean PACKED! And that is one reason why sometimes a lot of people didn’t go was because it was, it was later in the evening…you know, there’s no sense in going for two reasons: Number one, you wouldn’t get the opportunity to (be) near the front of the stage…and, you know, back then, very rarely they used a stage. And, uh…so it was, you know “common ground” with the audienceand so they wouldn’t see ‘em. And Number two, the cops were gonna be there in ten minutes and bust the party anyway! (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) I mean…I think it was very rare that a par-…that a Van Halen party went TO 10 O’clock, let alone PAST 10 O’clock…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) it was usually about 8:30, 9:00 and they were, uh…they were breaking ‘em up.

SR: So Mark Stone was the…was the ba-…was the bass player…

Rudy: Yeah…

SR: Not the keyboard player?

Rudy: No, he was the bass player. He was the original.

SR: So, who was the keyboard player?

Rudy: Uh…

SR: Or that’s the guy you can’t think of his name?

Rudy: Gary Pewsey, I believe, was his name. Uh…

SR: Hmmm…

Rudy: I don’t know…I can try…you should probably shoulda put his name on the list…to try to find him too.

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: It’d probably be interesting to hear what he…I’d be curious to hear what he had to say!

SR: Yeah…I mean that…that must be, like, you know…Pete Best in The Beatles, you know…

Rudy: Right…I just saw an interview with Pete Best…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …not too long ago.

SR: That was pretty sad, isn’t it?

Rudy: …and he was…well, no. Now he’s…

SR: He’s Ok?

Rudy: He’s real good now. He said that, you know, in the beginning it was…it was rough because everybody was all “Yeah, right. Sure. Come on. Why’d ya leave ‘em?”

SR: Mmm hmmm…

Rudy: And, uh…then after that it became…he became suicidal…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …and very depressed. And, uh…now he’s…I forget what he’s doing for a living, but he was in VERY good…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …spirits, and, uh…and doing real good.

SR: Mmm. Actually, his picture’s up on that wall, he’s sort’ve a Beatle, I…I admit.

Rudy: Yeah, sure is.

SR: Really nice guy…

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: So nice…(pause) yeah…(pause) So can…do…t-…can we talk at all about, umm…what happened today?

Rudy: Sure. It hadn’t hit me yet.

SR: I mean, your reaction to it, I mean…

Rudy: I’m in total shock. I REALLY am. I mean it’s like…it’s a combination of (pause)…I don’t wanna believe it…and…it’s not possible. (nervous laughter)

SR: I mean, could you sense…during the last year, the last two years…anything…that it was…

Rudy: Oh, yeah…oh, yeah.

SR: …that it was brewing?

Rudy: During the last…during the last two tours…I sensed a lot of…there’s been a lot of things happened. Umm…you know, there’s been conflicts…namely to do with, uh…mainly based around Dave. I mean, you know, I don’t mean to talk shit about him, but he has a lot of…I mean he has created a lot of…sss…umm…(pause)…you know, pressure around him. There’s a lot of anxiety around him…I mean people really, literally…held their breath when he came into a room a lotta times back in, you know, a couple years ago because the…the fear of him coming in in a bad mood. And, uh…God forbid, I mean, he is one of the greatest guys to be around when he’s in a good mood…but when he is in a bad mood, forget about it. He is the worst. THE WORST. And the guy could get upset over somethin’…you know, there’s like…anybody can get upset over a little reason at the right time, but…it was pretty, you know…it was pretty bad, like uh…you know, just a simple example would be something like…when the band bus, the band bus was scheduled to run at, uh…roll outta town, I think something like two or three o’clock in the morning, from the hotels. But whenever Dave was squeezing…you know, everybody else would be ready, the luggage would be all loaded up and everything, but…you know, it was “Waiting For Dave”. And that often went into, like five in the morning. You know, if he had a…was having a good time. And then, he’d come down to the bus, and then it’s, you know, uh… “score time”, you know, he’d have to tell…tell what he did and everything…

SR: (exhales in disbelief)

Rudy: …night after night after night…it gets old.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Anyway…but, if it was the reverse…you know, uh…boy, and HE wanted to leave, or if he wasn’t squeezing or something like that, then all HELL would break loose if one of the other guys was, you know…holdin’ up the…holdin’ up the shebang. I mean, you know…ho! ho! ho! Forget about it. And that’s just between the band.

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: That’s not…that’s nothing to do with…you know…you know, somebody in the crew did something, or…uh…something happened at the hotel or something didn’t happen at the hotel. (pause) But, uh…I’ve sensed it. It’s been there. Uh…last year, the last tour, ‘1984’, I really thought that it was…wasn’t…wouldn’t happen. I thought that everything had come around. The guys were happy again.

SR: Really?

Rudy: Yeah. There was a lot…they were getting along much better…

SR: Did the success of the album have anything to do with it?

Rudy: (long pause) I don’t know. I think it could…I think it could have something to do with it, of course, because…the excitement of the, the, the album and the single, you know, moving near the top of the charts all the time and…and the, uh…the “hoopla” around the band, you know, wherever they went.

SR: Right…

Rudy: But, uh…I don’t know…I think it could’ve been (long pause) …it could be something to do with…I, personally, think that a lot of it was…due to Dave. And…the way he would react to certain situations and…you know, the way he would…uh…you know, uh…demand things of the band, the rest of the band. Umm…and I think that last year, that, you know, the year after we got done touring…in, in ’83…(coughs) or I should say ’82, because ’83-the only thing we did was South America and the US Festival. But ’82, after that tour, Dave started working out, with, uh…Benny “The Jet” (Urquidez)…who was, kick-boxing, you know, World Champion kick-boxer. And…he really started concentrating a lot on his physical conditioning…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …and working out a lot. And I noticed it a lot, with…whether it be, uh…people in organized sports such as football…or people who ha-…uh, you know, learning the martial arts and stuff like that, they begin to develop, ummm…uh…a certain characteristics that are, I d-…you know, I don’t know if you wanna call it m-…more “well-behaved” or what you’d call it. Like for instance, a kid who has grown up in a bad neighborhood, you know…minority, you know, who’s used to street fighting and…and gangs and stuff like that, you get one of these kids into a college ball and…you know, gone on and is excelling in his sport. And you usually tend to find a guy with a good personality…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: You know, who’ll look you straight in the eye, and…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …whereas the ones who haven’t quite made it or frustrated-whatever, it…still right back doing whatever…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Now, there’s exceptions to every rule, but…I…I noticed that. It seemed to me that I don’t…I don’t mean to say, like maybe that Dave was happier with himself…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: But…it just came at the same time, and he seemed to be very much, umm…he was very…he was a lot funner to be around. He…he was like, he…more like the old Dave…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Ummm…and it’s even gotten…it’s even gotten better and better and better as…as time’s gone along ‘cause there was a lot of rough times, even, you know, up until early last year and everything and…now he’s uh…presently, uh…working out, you know, bodybuilding a lot down at Gold’s Gym. And…not, not too long ago, we were going out to Magic Mountain to see some friends of ours who were, uh…playing in a b-…playing in a band called Autograph…

SR: Uh-huh, yeah…I know Steve…

Rudy: They were playing Magic Mountain. You know Steve, uh…?

SR: Steve Lynch.

Rudy: Steve Lynch! Write him down…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: ‘Cause he was in Headwinds…and w-…they used to…

SR: Headwinds…

Rudy: We…or not Headwinds, uh…Wolfgang.

SR: Was he really?

Rudy: Yes. He was the lead singer for Wolfgang.

SR: He was the lead singer?!

Rudy: Yeah!

SR: That’s great…

Rudy: And they used to play with us…we used to open up for Wolfgang.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) And now…

SR: And then Autograph opened…

Rudy: Autograph opened up…

SR: …opened for you guys.

Rudy: and got signed. They were an unsigned band opened up for us on the ‘1984’ tour and they got signed in Madison Square Garden.

SR: Did they really?

Rudy: Yep.

SR: That’s great.

Rudy: And…you know, you know, the rest is history…now they’re kickin’ ass.

SR: Yeah. He’s a great guitar player, that guy…

Rudy: Yeah!

SR: I think he’s…he’s real special…very, very skilled.

Rudy: Yeah, yeah, he is very good. Yeah, all those guys in that band, oh, man…I got only good things to say about them.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Yep, they were very nice guys. Very nice guys.

SR: So…you were out at Magic Mountain…

Rudy: So we…Ok, we were going out to Magic Mountain…right…so Dave and I leave Pasadena to go to the office, we were supposed to pick up Harvey and Little Jimmy, you know…one of the midgets?

SR: Oh…midgets…

Rudy: Umm…at the office parking lot. So, we pull in there, and then uh…we decided, well they’re gonna come with us in Dave’s car. So, there was a bunch of junk in the backseat, so we…I got out, opened the trunk you know, and then I was helpin’ Dave get stuff out of the trunk and…and then, uh…I set…set some stuff on the ground and then opened, uh…then I opened the trunk and I turned around and picked up the stuff off the ground and threw it in the trunk.

SR: Right…

Rudy: And I slammed the trunk…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …and the key was still in there. Ok…this was..this was a Mercedes-Benz 450 SEL with this laser-cut key-lock system, right…ultra-security. So, this is a Saturday. So, we’re callin’ all over…I’m…I’m like, “Uh-oh…” immediately, it’s like “Oh, SHIT!” and, uh…you know…

SR: Like you were really afraid…

Rudy: Oh…I was…

SR: …that he was gonna lose it.

Rudy: …Oh...I’m tellin’ ya what…I was…I was…the worst punishment…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …was the fact of..the…the..the fright of Dave losing his temper. And…’cause he was not a very fun guy to be around when he’s mad (laughs), especially when he’s mad at you!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs) You know what I mean, and he’s not much funner when he’s mad at somebody else, but it’s worse when he’s mad at you. Umm…and he was totally controlled. And he…(in Dave’s voice) “What do we do?” and I said “Uh, ooh, I’ll go call, I’ll go over, I’ll run over to the Mercedes place, see if the service department is open, I’ll come back…” you know…(phone rings-tape stops)

(recording resumes)

SR: So, you were lookin’ for a locksmith…

Rudy: So, I run over to the Mercedes dealer and, uh…they’re closed. They give me a 1-800 number, I call and they can’t help me, so I come back over there and they were sitting out on the car…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I say “They couldn’t do anything over there” …uh…so I’m, like, now I’m for sure Dave’s gonna explode…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I mean…I literally, I didn’t even run around the parking lot to go in, I hopped over the wall to, uh…climb…a more direct route so I’d get there quicker, you know, I didn’t want to hang ‘em up. Oh, and then…I forgot to mention on the way back from the Mercedes dealer, I already knew this…stopped at a pay phone and tried to call a bunch of locksmiths…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Couldn’t get a hold of anybody, so I ran there because I figured they’d be gettin’ upset (that) I wasn’t back yet. Told them and so Dave and Jimmy went up the street to get a hamburger while we called for locksmiths. We went up into the office, sat up there and called. Nobody could help us. Nobody could help us. And finally, we found this one guy…said (in the voice of locksmith on the phone) “Oh yeah, sure…yeah, I’ll be over there in 15 minutes”. He goes “Oh it’s not one of those security key(s) is it?” … (in Rudy’s voice in response) “Oh, no, no, no, it’s just one of those keys with the cuts on each side, no problem”. He comes over and gets out of the truck, immediately looks at it and says “Sorry, I can’t…nothin’ I can do, I can’t touch it”. (In Rudy’s voice in response) “Why is that?”, he goes “Well this is a laser cut key”. He goes “Number one, to make the key, uh…the machine costs $3,500. Nobody carries one of those machines in their trucks. So, you’re gonna have to find somebody who has one of those machines and you’re gonna have to tow the car to him” …

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (continuing in the voice of the locksmith) “…and you’re not going to be able to do it this weekend” …

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (continuing in the voice of the blacksmith) “You’ll have to wait until Monday.”

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (in Rudy’s voice) “OH SHIT!” …and I, you know… (continuing in Rudy’s voice as if speaking to Dave and preparing for the worst) “Ok, I’m ready. Ok. You can just…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …kick my ass all over this parking lot. Anytime you’re ready.” Nothing yet. (pause) And so, I don’t know why…out of desperation I asked the guy, I said “Hey, well…how much does a lock like that cost?” He said, “Oh you can replace that lock for about $60.” …I said, “Drill it!” (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And so…or Dave said, “Drill it!” (laughs) and then, uh…so they drilled it and we got the key out and we were off on our merry way. But that was just like, you know, just an example of how far he’s come! (laughs) (saying incredulously) He did not lose his temper at all!

SR: And earlier he would’ve, like…

Rudy: Oh, forget about it! For one, Rudy wouldn’t even go to Magic Mountain with him anymore…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs)…Number two, he’d (Rudy speaking of himself in third person again) probably be walkin’ home from Hollywood…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …Number three, he’d have a…a newly developed limp! (laughs)…and probably be looking out of one eye…(pause)…but, uh…Ok, we were back in New York. And, uh…I went back to New York, and I have some friends back there who, uh…uh, brought to my attention that the Hard Rock Café was owned by Dan Akroyd in New York City…

SR: Uh, huh?

Rudy: Um…it has a guitar collection in it. Uh, EVERYBODY’S…

SR: Probably like the one out here…they have guitars on the walls.

Rudy: Do they?

SR: This one has it too, yeah…

Rudy: Yeah?

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: That one back there has got some heavies…

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: You know…Clapton, Beck, uh…Page, umm…the guy from Yes, uh…everybody…umm…what’s his name up there, the guy in the middle there, (with) the schnozz…uh…Billy Squier…in’t it Billy Squier up there (pointing at a picture on the wall)?

SR: Uh huh, it looks like him, I’d say…Corky Laing…

Rudy: Oh!

SR: (laughs) It looks like him!

Rudy: (laughs) Yeah, you know, I…you know…EVERYBODY has got stuff, you know…Hendrix’s hat and belt…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …umm…the only guitar that was missing was Edward’s! So, they called me up and told me “Hey, you gotta get one of Edward’s guitars out here”. So, I told Edward about it, and he said “Yeah, GREAT idea!” …and so, uh…we set it up…and Edward came back…fortunately I was in New York when he came back there and he went into the Hard Rock Café and he gave them the guitar. Ok, well, that was at the same time that…that Valerie was doing ‘Night of a Hundred Stars’ which was a variety, uh…benefit for the, uh…’Retired Actor’s Home’ and they were filming it there at the, uh…Radio City Music Hall. While Edward was there…while Edward was there, he got to, uh…he met a few guys, he was runnin’ around with, you know, them when they weren’t working. Tony Danza was one and, Mark Gastineau was another…

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: And, uh…him and Mark Gastineau just hit it off; they became really good friends.

SR: M…m…I mean, did Ed know who Mark Gastineau was?

Rudy: Oh yeah! Valerie’s a BIG, uh…football fan.

SR: Oh really?

Rudy: BIG football fan, I mean she…she goes to the Raiders games…

SR: Ah!

Rudy: …and, uh…you know, she’s like down on the field and everything with Press Passes and the works.

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: And, uh…and so…I’m sure Edward knew who he was too, but probably didn’t know, by…you know, his face. But he knew him by name. And so, they were introduced…they hit it off and became good friends and there at the…at the Hard Rock, uh…Mark Gastineau showed up, so I met…I saw him there and I was like “Wow! This is a trip!” And I just said…I ain’t waitin’ for nobody, I went up and introduced myself to him!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And then, uh…later on, that night, they were sittin’ around playing, uh…what is that? “Dollar Poker” where ya have the numbers…the serial numbers, they were playin’ that, and Valerie was clearin’ everybody out…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (laughs)…you know, and…and, uh…so they became friends and, uh…Mark asked Edward if he’d like to race in the, uh…Long Beach Grand Prix Celebrity Race and Edward thought “Yeah! Great idea!”. So…they went out here…into play…there was two qual-…two, uh…schools. Everybody who drove in the race had to go to the school. Umm…and one of ‘em was a pla-…I don’t know if it’s called “Whispering Springs” …or the “Willow Spring” …” Willow Springs” I think it was called. And I don’t know where the other one was, but anyway, uh…Mark and…and Edward went up there on the weekend… (distracted by a good looking female) “Hello Betty!” …

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: How does she look like from the front?!

SR: She’s not bad…

Rudy: Anyway…Is she married?

SR: Yeah, she has…she has a girlfriend…

Rudy: Oh…Bummer!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Anyway, uh…(pause) So they went up there and…I talked to Edward after he got back and he said “Well the first day, I went up there and I was like ‘YEAH! LET’S DO IT!’…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …and Mark was all paranoid like (in Mark’s voice) “Man, I don’t know about this…” …

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: And so, he would talk to Mark, and, uh… that’s the first day. And like, you know, like Tony Danza, he…they call him-they nicknamed him “Spin-Out” …

SR: Oh really…

Rudy: …because…of course it was all dirt track and, you know, around the track it was all dirt. ‘Cause he was just constantly spinning out and he had the attitude of (in Danza’s voice) “Hey man, you can’t teach me how to drive, I’m from New York. I know how to drive. You can’t teach me how to drive!”

SR: Right…right…

Rudy: And that was his attitude. And umm…Mark’s uh…so Mark was paranoid and…and Edward was going “Oh man, this is going to be great! Let’s do it!” and, uh…what’s his name?... -uh…Lamas?

SR: Tony?

Rudy: Tony Lamas?

SR: Tony…

Rudy: No, that’s boots! (laughs) (imitates “lightning” noise with his mouth)

SR: That’s who?

Rudy: (laughs) Ha, ha! Those are BOOTS! (laughs)

SR: Lamas…Ricardo…

Rudy: Ricar…I mean, uh…yeah…what’s his name Lamas’ son.

SR: Yeah, I know who you are talkin’ (about)…

Rudy: He’s…he’s on ‘Dynasty’…

SR: Uh huh…

Rudy: …or some…some new television show. Anyway, he’s the one who eventually ended up winning the race.

SR: Really?

Rudy: But he…out there qualifying, he was like a Tony Danza-CRAZY! And he totaled a car! Now how do you total a car that (imitates the sound of a speeding car) spinning around in the dirt?! He did it! So (clears throat) the next day, Edward came out and he’s goin’ “Man…” uh…you…or uh…he’s goin’ (in Edward’s voice in a grave tone) “Man, I don’t know about this. This is…” you know, “This is dangerous. This is crazy.” And Gastineau’s all (excitedly in Gastineau’s voice) “Man, c’mon, what are you doing?!”. He goes (in Gastineau’s voice again) “Man, I thought about what you said last night! I’m ready! Let’s do it! Let’s go!” you know! And he’s (Edward) all “Man, well I’ve been thinkin’ about it and I don’t know about this…” so it's like they’d gone one-hundred and eighty degrees…both of ‘em! And then the next day, uh…they were both, uh… “Unh-unh…I don’t know about this. This looks…this looks funky.”. Now Mark, apparently, uh…pressures…umm…his agent or whatever suggested that he sh-sh-sh…he should stay… (in voice of Gastineau’s agent) “Ya gotta stay.” You know…I don’t know if it was like…he wondered (if) his…his knee was a big part of it, or whatever, but he was basically forced into staying.

SR: Who was that? Mark?

Rudy: Mark Gastineau. And Edward said, “No guys.” He wouldn’t do it. Ok…now I had heard…on the radio, I had heard like advertising (in voice of radio announcer) “…and a surprise rock and roll guest star.” …

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: …who I know was to be him (Edward)…

SR: Mmm hmmm…

Rudy: …now he (Edward) didn’t race in it. Now I just talked to a buddy of mine who knows a guy who works for a Toyota dealership…and he told him that the reason Edward didn’t race in the race is because they caught him with krell and they kicked him out.

SR: (chuckles)

Rudy: They caught him with krell and ki-…and this is…out…out there at the qualifying thing. Now which is NOT the truth at all. For…for a few reasons, one of ‘em being that Mark Gastineau doesn’t do the stuff…

SR: He doesn’t?

Rudy: Uh…number two, there were the seriously…for the…you know, it’s…it’s a dangerous sport and you can’t be doing that. It’s different than, you know, sittin’ around your house.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Or in your studio…whatever…but not when you’re tryin’ to race a car, you know. It’s too dangerous and so they (Edward and Mark) weren’t doing that.

SR: I think Edward would have been a little more discreet about that anyway…

Rudy: (enthusiastically) Oh, of course! And that’s the third thing is the fact that he’s no fool and he doesn’t snort it in front of…in mixed company…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: And, uh…or, well I take that back (laughs) uh, you know (laughs)

SR: I know, but not in mixed company like that in its…

Rudy: No. Not in a professional environment.

SR: Right. (pause) Hmm, yeah…those are great stories. About when was that? Whe-…when was the uh…when was the uh…Hard Rock Café?

Rudy: Ahhh…it’s April then May…February…March (1985).

SR: March?

Rudy: It was March.

SR: And it was right after that Edward went out to the Grand Prix?

Rudy: Mark Gastineau. You should talk to him too.

SR: (enthusiastically) I would love to! Could you get…

Rudy: Yes.

SR: Really?

Rudy: I…I’ll set that up…for ya. That would be no problem. Because…I’m sure that the, you know, the first impressions and uh…since then, they’ve been out to Palm Springs with one another. Mark’s been workin’ out in Palm Springs…in the off season. And Edward’s gone out there a couple of weekends with him.

SR: Is he a nice guy?

Rudy: Oh…

SR: He’s a pretty intimidating guy…

Rudy: Hey, I’ll tell ya what…HE IS GREAT. He is great. Got a great personality. Good sense of humor. REALLY nice and he gives you the feeling that you’re worth something because he listens to ya.

SR: Yeah?

Rudy: He looks you right in the eye and he listens to ya.

SR: I think he’d like talkin’ ‘bout Ed. Ya know?

Rudy: I think he would too. And you know Edward said something about him…well, I.. I don’t remember exactly what it was, but something like, you know “He’s a REAL person.”

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: You know, he really is…he’s somebody that he…he has…he’s…Edward said he hasn’t met somebody like him in a long time.

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: And umm…which is real good because Edward needs somebody besides Donn.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: You know, and…you know…(pause) it seems to me a lot that it…first comes Donn, then comes Valerie. You know he’d probably shoot me for saying that, but…

SR: No, it’s…

Rudy: I get the feeling a lot that, you know, it’s no-…I’m sure in his heart Valerie is…means more to him, but Donn is (a) very close second. And the two of them, they have a d-…they have that unthreatening type of relationship. Whereas marriage is a little different.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: There’s time demanded of you…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …for certain things. And, so, you know…it’s natural, anybody, when you get married, marriage isn’t made in heaven, you know, and so you’d have those type of conflicts and when your pressures are hot, you know it’s…well, you know, what do you blame it on, but, you know, than the relationship, or whatever, whereas Donn and…Donn and Edward it’s…there’s no strings…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …there’s no bullshit. They work at their own leisure. Donn doesn’t want to do somethin’ one day, he says “Hey, I don’t…”-you know, well that’s very rare, because…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: Basically, all he’s got to do is just sit around and, you know, turn knobs and everything, but…oh, everybody goes through the days where they don’t feel good.

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: But, uh…

SR: Yeah, Ed’s uh…Ed’s little social circle is, uh…is pretty tight.

Rudy: Oh!

SR: I mean he…

Rudy: I’ll tell ya what…when…

SR: I mean have you sensed…could you sense that…I mean over the years, I mean he wasn’t the kind of guy who would always have fifteen new friends around every gig or something…

Rudy: Mmm hmm…mmm hmm.

SR: You know?

Rudy: A lot of the friends…a lot of the people that have hung around have come and gone. You know…few have remained. And…it’s funny, there’s been few people that I…like, I…that I don’t really like from the beginning. You know, uh…one guy I can think of right off the top of my head, he owned Laney Amps, he bought Laney Amps…young guy…English guy. And…(he) thought (emphasizes each syllable with finger snaps)-He-Was-THE-Cool-est-Thing-To Walk the Earth.

SR: Wh-…what was his name?

Rudy: I don’t know…blonde guy.

SR: Yeah, I know who you are talkin’ about. Ed…Ed didn’t like him either, did he?

Rudy: Oh, he did at first.

SR: He did?

Rudy: He really did at first. Intimidating mother-f-…I mean, the only r-…reason this guy gave me the time of day was because I worked for Edward Van Halen. And so, he was nice to me. But I didn’t…you know, he was the kind of guy that…he’d, uh…you know just assume…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …uh…ignore ya as have ya…have ya talk to him. So, I just totally…while he was hangin’ around, I just really, really was uh…you know, absent. Gone. Because I didn’t like the guy at all.

SR: Would he come up to the house? Would Ed have him up to the house?

Rudy: Uh, I…don’t know if he went…uh…came out here to California (and) went up to the house, but I know when he…we were on the road, he came to four or five cities with us, he was travelling with us…

SR: Mmm…mmm hmm.

Rudy: …and really trying to sell Ed…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …on Laney Amps and everything. But uh…

SR: Did that happen a lot to Ed? In terms of people tryin’ to, uh…have him check out new amps and…

Rudy: Oh yes, particularly this last year. Every single city, people were there with guitars. Every…I mean it seems to be THE classic way of ge-…of getting passes, getting tickets to a show. These guys’ll…you know, some of the guitars are decent…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …you know, but a lot of the guitars, a lot of the stuff...I mean, you know…is junk. I would say seventy-five percent of it. And then of the other twenty-five percent, Edward isn’t interested in but five percent of it.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And, uh…

SR: Did he actually find anything on the road that was…

Rudy: Yes, we’ve bought…we’ve bought quite a few things on the road. Uh…but uh…we bought a lot, a lot of stuff on the road. I remember one year, as a matter of fact, we budgeted…we…we were having, you know, our pre-production meetings…tour budgets. And they said “Ok, next week, everybody have a rough idea of what your numbers are gonna be. So, I went in the following week and everyone went around and read off everything and I was thinking “Well, what do I think I’m gonna spend on the whole tour?” and I thought to myself “Well, better include, you know, tubes during the tour…you know, you better include…uh…any other thing…any other (un)foreseen thing, maybe you blow some transformers or whatever. So, I’ll put in a little bit of money for repairs for Jose (Arredondo). Then you better think ‘Oh, uh…Edward might buy a couple of guitars out there.” So, I had a budg-…my, my bid…my budget for 1982 was sixteen-five ($16,500) I figured…

SR: Sixteen-thousand, five hundred dollars?

Rudy: Right…

SR: Would cover…

Rudy: …getting everything ready to go out. Including new equipment we needed before the tour, incl-…ord-…including ordering picks, strings…every single thing…

SR: So, we…so…

Rudy: …I figured we would need for 1982, for that tour…I figured it would be about sixteen-thousand, five hundred.

SR: For the…for the whole tour? Are you talking about before he stepped on “Stage One”, you needed a check in your hand for sixteen-five and Edward (was) gonna be covered?

Rudy: No, for the whole tour.

SR: For the whole tour?

Rudy: For the whole tour. And, uh, so I said this number and everybody went “What?!” People were laughing. Edward was freaked out. He goes “You’re crazy.” Dave got pissed!

SR: A-…as being too much?!
Rudy: Yes! Dave got fucking pissed off, and Dave said (in angry voice) “Ok, next week…everybody…” you, you know, “Everybody have their budgets in…” and to have it…have it, you know, they (the rest of the team at the meeting) said “For what?” and I told them “ Well, I go, “I don’t have everything written here…” but I told them that…”Miscellaneous.” They said “No way.”

SR: And Ed said that too?

Rudy: Yeah. So, I came up with another figure…of just, everything he needed to spend. I don’t remember what it was…nine thousand-something like that. Or ten thousand-something. Might have been a little more. End of the year, I looked…

SR: (chuckles)

Rudy: …at the budget. I was six…sixteen-thousand-something.

SR: Really?

Rudy: I swear to God (excitedly) and I was like, “See?! See?!” (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: “See who gets the last laugh?”

SR: (laughs) So, most of that went to Ed buying guitars on the road?

Rudy: About four thousand dollars’ worth. He bought some guitars, and he bought some amps out there…

SR: Did he?

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: What specifically? Can you…

Rudy: I really don’t remember that year…. what he bought. There’s been a few things that he’s bought over the years. Umm, last year we got this thing this guy brought in…it’s uh…what is it called? It used to be made by Sears… “Silvertone”.

SR: Uh huh…

Rudy: This guy…

SR: Oh, the “Airplane guitar” …no?

Rudy: No, no, no. This is another one. I hope this is…I hope he didn’t take this one apart. Umm…this thing, you know, th-… that Sears used to make with the Danelectro neck…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …you know, that like the…the…the cheap Dan-…electric guitar?

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And it, it…the case…real thin case…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …and it had the built-in amp?

SR: Yeah, right.

Rudy: Have you seen that one?

SR: Uh..uh…I’ve seen ‘em before, (but) I haven’t seen it at Ed’s house though.

Rudy: Mint condition. This had been underneath…this…this man had bought it. He had a stroke two months after he bought it. (He) couldn’t play the thing ‘cause his right side was paralyzed or (his) left side was fucked up or whatever…couldn’t play the thing. (It) stayed underneath the bed for like twenty-five years. Finally, his wife dug it out and sold it. Edward bought it. I think he paid two-hundred dollars…

SR: Really?

Rudy: …for it. Brand. New. Not as much as a smudge on the fingerboard or anything. The…the original tubes in the amp.

SR: Wow.

Rudy: And it worked perfect.

SR: (chuckles) That’s great.

Rudy: I mean he’s come across some…some things like that.

SR: Yeah…(pause) So, is…is…is it…was that standard, uh… procedure? For you? Pre-production meetings like that…

Rudy: Every year.

SR: “This is what we’re gonna…”

Rudy: Every year. Every year.

SR: Did the budgets tend to go up each year?

Rudy: Uh…(pauses) Well, yes, they did because…usually because of the addition of something, like for instance, for ‘1984’, we uh…you know “Jump” was done with keyboards and, uh…um…um… “I’ll Wait” was done with keyboards, so those keyboards were five-thousand dollars apiece. Well, we had to have a spare, you know…if you have a problem with one, ya gotta have a back-up.

SR: Right…

Rudy: So here comes two! And now Michael needs one on his side, so now he needs two!

SR: (chuckles) Yeah, right…

Rudy: And then…there…wa-… you know, he was playin’ the bass on the Mini-Moog, so now he needs two Mini-Moogs, so it went, you know, that…right there, it was an addition of, uh…twenty thousand dollars for just the four Mini-Moogs. You know, so th-…it was a…there was a, uh…a jump.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: We already had, uh…most of the amps. And for the first time in 1984, we were uh…we were bi-amping…the guitar. I was feeding, uh…signal from, uh…from a Marshall into, um…some H&H power amps. Every other year previous we had powered everything onstage with a Marshall for every cabinet. But you know…I…like…you know…as you know, one Marshall doesn’t necessarily sound like the next…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …Marshall. And so, Edward always used to complain when he used to walk up across the stage…or when he’d stand on the riser, at how bad the guitar sounded, you know like for Alex, you know, or f-…or on Michael’s side of the stage. And then last year with uh…with uh…(the) use of the power amps, everything sounded the same across the stage.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: Everything was the same. Ever-…I… you know, like…In 1984, Edward did spend a lot more time, like, standing up on the riser…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …jammin’ with Alex.

SR: Right.

Rudy: Because it sounded good…

SR: Yeah…right…

Rudy: …up there. For the first time.

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: And uh…but that was a big innovation. A BIG innovation for Van Halen. And it made it…oh…I left… (long pause) I took eight Marshalls with me on the road last year, and all I…you know, all I used was one…basically, because I used the power amps. And I left, uh…four Marshalls home-I never even took ‘em on the road.

SR: Really?

Rudy: And I could’ve left another four…home.

SR: You…so you’d mentioned that the original head that Ed was using in the early years, he retired and is now for the studio…

Rudy: Right.

SR: …and you replaced that with that other one?

Rudy: Right. It w-…

SR: …that you guys found out there somewhere?

Rudy: Another…another old head that we found. Yeah.

SR: Where’d you find that? Do you remember?

Rudy: Umm… (long pause) I think we could’ve bought that on the road somewhere. I think we might have bought it from a guitar store somewhere out there on the road. We just…we kinda keep an eye out for ‘em.

SR: The remaining heads that you brought out, were those new heads?

Rudy: Umm…no, one of ‘em was a new head. But it had been modified…

SR: To the same…

Rudy: …to sound like the old ones, yeah. But, uh…the other three, uh…no there were seven of ‘em. I think three of them were new…three of ‘em, they were the new models and uh…or four of them were the new models and four were the old ones. But uh…uh…oh I just, I had a thought for a second. Oh yeah, interesting story about the old head. The very first year we went on the road, he not only took, umm…his original guitar with him back then in those days…before he built…the pre-Kramer days…but he also took the original, you know his “baby”, the amp with him on the road.

SR: Right.

Rudy: And umm… (clears throat) 1978, we went to Japan and…the band had left early and I, alre-…gone into from Osaka to Tokyo early and I stayed in Osaka to clear the gear through customs there. And…or no, we flew…I flew early into Osaka to clear the uh, I mean into Tokyo to clear the gear there. And the band flew into Tokyo, Narita Airport, later and I met them later in the afternoon at the airport. Well…arrangements were all made for the equipment…to travel. And so, it was just a matter of going in and, you know, making sure everything was there and saying “Ok” and clearing it. Well, uh…umm…one week later, or five days later, we were gonna play our very first festival show in the United States. Or anywhere. And that was going to be at the…the Cotton Bowl in Texas, the Texxas World Music Festival.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: Well, we got to town…we got to Dallas and…our equipment didn’t. And so, after we were tra-…tracing and tracing and tracing, finally they found it. It was in Chicago. But they couldn’t get the equipment to Dallas in time. So, the two days that we had for jet lag, we spent running all over Dallas…and uh…Fort Worth…to music stores renting equipment from them. Umm…the only piece of equipment that we had that was ours…I believe was a…a guitar that Michael had…he just happ-…he had it with him, I don’t know why-I can’t remember. And…a brand-new drum riser that we had…had delivered there. So, here’s Alex up on this giant, beautiful drum riser…this beat-up…uh…umm…drum set-really looked like crap. And these little “toy amps”, you know, his Marshall and uh…you know his Marshall cabinet and everything, but just small, one cabinet and…or there might have been two cabinets and…uh…you know, like one or two amps and…and, uh…Edward, I believe he played a Les Paul goldtop…

SR: Did he?

Rudy: …that day. (ed. note: It was a sunburst Les Paul Custom with gold hardware, a black pickguard and black “poker chip” toggle switch cover used for the encore only. Edward used his original black and white striped Frankenstein for the main set as usual) And uh…it was just very “toy” looking. So, uh…what happened after that was…Ok, that night we got out of there…there real late, like I…I got to the hotel probably about 3:30 or 4:00 (am). And then, the next morning, I had to get up at 6:00 (am) and go with our truck driver to the customs…and go to the airport and clear our…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …gear through. Well, I was…uh, needless to say, I was really fucked up…

SR: (chuckles)

Rudy: …from the night before…still. And I just…my mind wasn’t there. And the customs agents had assured me that they had counted the pieces and there was…every piece was there.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And I walked out and I looked around and it seemed, (in Rudy’s voice) “Yeah. Ok.” So, I signed. And then we started loading the truck. And I realized (in Rudy’s voice) “Hey, wait a minute…where’s the bomb?” (laughs) You know we had this big World War II bomb we used to carry (ed. note: The surplus, hollow “practice bomb” was used as a stand for the Univox EC-80 A echo unit used at the end of “Eruption” at that time). And it turned out there was about four pieces missing. Umm…one of ‘em was a three-head amp case…including “The Baby” …

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: … “The Bomb” …and a couple other things, I don’t remember what they were. Well…they found everything but the three-amp head case. And, boy, I’ll tell ya what…it was like…it was like…uh, you know…(the) loss of a good friend…you know, I mean Edward was devastated.

SR: Wh-…what did he do when you told him? (chuckles) Did he like, freak?

Rudy: Oh yes.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Oh yes. He got very upset.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Very, VERY upset. And, you know, it’s…nobody else was around and who was to know that…that I, you know, that…I was fucked up and I didn’t, you know, but I signed before…I mean, I…it was just a technicality. But the…the fact was I did sign it and I mean if they wanted to be assholes about it, you know, they could have…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy …been assholes about it, but they were very good about it. (pause) Four months later, we got it back.

SR: (incredulously) You’re kidding.

Rudy: Four months later, I was backstage at (pauses)…The Spectrum in Philadelphia. I’ll never forget it. And someone called me “Rudy…telephone.” I go running back and this…this house guy punched up his phone on the wall there at the gig… (in Rudy’s voice) “Hello, yeah…” it was Karen (Karen Valdez, secretary) calling from the office (in Karen’s voice) “Yeah, well umm…they found the amps!” (excitedly) And I was just…aww, jumping up and down and I couldn’t believe it! I couldn’t wait for it…I…I mean, I just…I had to call the hotel immediately and tell Edward. Well, they hadn’t…they had…they had already left to come over for soundcheck. So when he got there, I had this big shit-eating grin on my face and he… (in Edward’s voice) “What’s…wh-what…” …he, you know, whenever something’s up, I just…my…he always says “What?” (laughs) I told him “They found the amp!” you know…and so it was like…that was it, you know… “Hip-Hip, Hooray!”. And that was the main…reason for the decision to retire it and leave it at home, because if indeed it is lost, we’ll never be able to replace it.

SR: So…wh-…what did he use in that space…the four-month space?

Rudy: Oh, God! That was hell. Hell months. That was when we went through…we were buying uh…Music Man heads…

SR: Really? You really used Music Man?

Rudy: Yeah, we tried. Uh…

SR: This is the first tour we’re talkin’…

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: …about, right?

Rudy: We had Music Mans, we had Laneys…and we, we went and bought more Marshalls…and uh…we were tryin’ everything. We really were. And boy, I’ll tell ya those were…that was hell because…and he’s alrea-…you know, it’s already hard enough to…to…to satisfy him because he knows what he hears.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And…to have the inferior equipment…umm…it was real, real rough. He was really puttin’ up with a lot. And uh…we made it. It was…it was tough-we made it. (pause) No doubt about it.

SR: So, what…what was that first tour like? (pause) You opened for Journey…

Rudy: We opened for Journey. The very first show we played on the road was at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago, Illinois.

SR: And this is what year, now? This is seventy…

Rudy: This is ’78. This is February 1978. And…it was…it was a real experience because…I wasn’t…I never have been really a…a fan of Journey’s music, but I was definitely…I mean I really didn’t even know who Journey was at the time…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And I’d only heard of Montrose…you know, there’s a couple songs I liked of his. But…I was never crazy about, you know, him either and I realized it was just a, you know, it was a vehicle for getting Van Halen out there. And…I was a very…very much impressed by the professional…it was a real first exposure I had to uh…the working ar-…arrangement. Because prior to that, we’d only done, you know, one or two other shows in a professional, you know, environment, uh…one at uh…Long Beach Arena the other one at the Santa Monica Civic.

SR: Really?

Rudy: Yeah. We opened up for Robert Fleischman (ed. note: Fleischman was Journey’s lead vocalist prior to Steve Perry) at the Santa Monica Civic. And we opened up for…umm…Carlos Santana at the Long Beach Arena.

SR: You guys did a gig with Devo…at the Santa Monica Civic.

Rudy: We did?!

SR: I thought you did. Michele Myer (talent booker at The Whisky) said you guys did…on New Year’s Eve?

Rudy: (long pause) That was Robert Fleischman.

SR: It was Robert Fleischman?

Rudy: Robert Fleischman and uh…ssst…who was that band with the real straight piano player? Sparks?

SR: Sparks.

Rudy: Yeah. Robert Fleischman-Sparks-Van Halen.

SR: Hmm. Ok.

Rudy: But uh…it was…it was really an experience, boy, I’ll tell ya what, it was like cut-…cuttin’ the kids loose in a candy store because…the greatest thing about it was…we would generally get our equipment loaded before Ronnie Montrose went on…ok, and we only had like, a bobtail back then…small…small, I mean uh…uh…Ryder truck, the smallest one. And then it was like, we would just…we would go and steal all of the…you know, by the time that Journey went on, we were already tanked up and ready to go and we would go and steal all their girlfriends.

SR: (laughs)

(tape ends)

SR: The…the album…the album had already been released…the first record?

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: And “You Really Got Me” was startin’ to happen?

Rudy: Yeah. And the crowds…the crowd responses were just tremendous.

SR: They really were…

Rudy: They really were.

SR: Was it like “Who’s this band ‘Van Halen’?

Rudy: No, no. They really were. By the time that Van Halen went off the stage…they…the crowd was ready to go. And unfortunately, Ronnie Montrose would put them back to sleep…and then…in the…particularly in the very beginning Journey’s set arrangement was lacking tremendously…umm…you know, like…uh…uh Steve Perry wouldn’t even come on ‘til the second or third song. And ummm…that was the first…first…thing that we noticed. The…the first influence that we created was the…Journey’s umm…paying attention to our set and re-arranging their sss…set a little to make it a little more dynamic.

SR: Really?

Rudy: Yeah. It was obvious. Because in the first two weeks, it was like…oh, very, very lethargic. But it turned into…uh, you know, by the end of the…end of that tour it was…better.

SR: And you had mentioned that…that Perry had just joined the band?

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: Your second gig?

Rudy: Yeah. Umm…it was the second gig that uh…we played …umm…uh…I don’t know how long they had been on the road. I think they’d only done one or two other shows.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: But I believe it was his second or third show that he had sung in. He was still the new kid on the block. You could tell. He…was a really nice guy. That’s when I got to know him, and I…’cause I talked to him, because he was really kind’ve an outsider with his own band. ‘Cause they really didn’t know him yet. And uh…so I got to talking with him a few times and he was very nice back then. Really nice guy.

SR: Could you sense any reaction of Neal Schon or…or…Montrose to Edward?

Rudy: Uhh…(long pause) Neal. Neal more because uh…Ronnie was basically…he was never around.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: He, you know, was like…uh…he would go home as soon as he was done…go to the hotel and, you know, was never around partying or anything. But, you know, Neal he, you know…you would catch him, you know, hear him in the tune-up room, you know, doin’ Eddie’s riff, you know, tryin’ to play “Eruption” and that kinda thing…

SR: Seriously?

Rudy: Oh yeah. Sure. And uh…I know he was very impressed by it…I…like I said before, when Edward…they (the Van Halen band) went on a handshake tour up North, uh…in ’78 prior to the tour…umm…right after the album came out…umm…they went to a Journey show. It was when they went up there to see Journey and talk to management, you know, feel out the…

SR: Mmm hmm, mmm hmm…

Rudy: …arrangement of going on tour with them. And uh…they walked in and they were standing there with…uh…Edward was standing there with, uh…Neal Schon. And umm…at that time, their tour manager…or their stage manager at that time, uh…his name was uh…Bubba. We called him “Cupcake” …it was our Van Halen “pet name” for him. (laughs) And uh…he came walkin’ in, (and) said “So, hey! What’s happenin’! So, which one of you guys is faster… (in over-eager tone) Gimme five!” you know, he turned immediately to Edward (laughs)

SR: Did he really?

Rudy: Yeah, you know (repeats in over-eager, exaggerated tone) “Gimme five!!” (laughs) you know, ‘cause they were, they were usually pretty…you know, joke-

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …jokester kinda guy(s).

SR: Right…right.

Rudy: Uh…you know, givin’ uh…Neal a hard time. But they wouldn’t let us come out…they (Journey management) wouldn’t let them come out and play with us or anything. I remember one night, we were…we were staying at the same hotel…I can’t remember the city…uh…and uh…and uh…we were out in the…it was one of those like “Motor Inn” type things where the doors open out to the parking lot…the two-story job. And we were outside drinkin’ and hell raisin’ and partyin’ and there wasn’t really any girls around that night…if I remember correctly…there was a few. And uh…oh yeah, there was as a matter of fact, because I had to take one home. Because I remember when I left everyone was out there partyin’ and getting’ crazy. And that was…that was the neat days too, because we had rent-a-cars, you know, that’s what we travelled in to and from the airport when we flew. And uh…so I took her home and when I came back the guys were out…I forget what they were involved with…some kind of game they were playin’. And they were laughin’ and getting’ crazy and like, umm…a couple times the, you know, management from the Journey side came out and said “Shut up you guys! Tryin’ to sleep!” (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And then, next thing you know, their guys are startin’ to sneak out and play with us. And they’d (Journey management) come out and they would, you know like, come over and go…(the Journey band would) wave the guy off and he’d be like, hangin’ his head over like…and he had to go back to his room. (laughs) You know…and they wanted to have fun. But I guess management really didn’t want them to hang out with us…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …or whatever. ‘Cause we really…there was a lot of resentment thrown, in a lot of respects in that…a band that was very dynamic…ummm…in everything they did. They’d uh…they…demanded attention. Whether they deserved it or whether they wanted it.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And uh…they got it! You know, the girls were…always went nuts.

SR: They did?

Rudy: Oh yeah. The girls…there was always girls around. And umm…But at the same, you see, even trashing the dressing room and stuff, which we did more often than not. Umm…all we would get…we’d just get scolded. Like Premier Talent would scold us. Uh…Warner Brothers would scold us. And Journey management would…would scold us and threaten us. You know, threaten us…weekly…to (the threat) that we are…we were off the tour. This is it!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: This is it! Well…this went on for a while and finally we realized…How come they keep on…you know, we were on “double-secret probation” now?!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Why aren’t we getting kicked off of this tour?! (laughs) And we finally realized that “Hey, look at this! Hey, the sales are goin’ pretty g-…Oh! Look at Journey’s album is up a little bit too! Wonder why?!” and we realized that, hey…

SR: Really?

Rudy: …it’s because we’re selling…you know, and then, you know, the…the ticket…the, the…uh…shows were selling better…

SR: Were they?

Rudy: And people were comin’ down and they were screamin’ “VAN HALEN!”

SR: Really?

Rudy: And the…the local radio stations were getting lots of requests for Van Halen. So it only became very apparent that that’s who umm…a majority of the people were comin’ to see was Van Halen.

SR: I mean, could…could you sense what Edward’s response was to this? I mean was he like…I mean this was his…his…this was his first shot at (the) bigtime, really, you know?

Rudy: Well, to Edward, no. To Edward, it really wasn’t…he…he really didn’t…I don’t think, grasp that. And…you know, appreciate the fact that they’re coming to see them play. Umm…to him, it was…he had to prove himself. And…that’s what he was there to do. And that’s, you know what…all the support acts are there to…bands are there to do. They have to prove themselves. And…and that’s where his head was at the whole time. He wasn’t out there ho-…hanging his head high and going “We’re bad. We’re bad.”

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: You know…” They’re here to see us.” Nothing like that. Umm…none of the guys in the band were…really. Because even though amongst the few bands we…the two bands we were playing with there…there still is a big world out there and a lot of other, you know, as far as I was concerned, and I’m not sure-probably them too-the element…the ba-…there wasn’t really the same kinda music. In other words, it wasn’t like it was as if we were opening up for Led Zeppelin or…

SR: No.

Rudy: …opening up for Ted Nugent…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …or, you know, KISS or something like that.

SR: Right…

Rudy: It was a different type of a crowd and…so it was a challenge. And it…and they were being accepted very good and then it helped too that they did start selling tickets of their own.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: So, it did broaden the audience…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …a bit. But umm…the whole time, he had the attitude of…of uh…very professional, there to do his work, and…there to play and hope that the people would appreciate…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …what he was playing.

SR: So maybe…that was probably pretty much the attitude he…probably…he probably had the same attitude when he was playin’ backyard parties and I…I don’t think that he’s really changed a lot in that respect, has he? In terms of havin’ that “big head” and…and…playing the politics of it?

Rudy: Well, I think…I think backyard parties…he played more for his own enjoyment.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: I really do. Than…than…uh…uh, once they became, you know, “professionals” on the professional circuit, I think then it was more…he wanted to…he played for himself because he enjoyed it, but he wanted to play good for people because he wanted to make them appreciate it.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: He was hoping…he has…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …a…a…a dream…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …(that) people would appreciate his music.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: But it…it turned more, you know, from…back then it was…he was playin’ other people’s music.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: And so it was more appreciation of, you know, just being…playing the guitar and people comin’ to the party and, you know, him havin’ a good time. But once it became his own music, then I think it was uh…you know, he…how he represented himself…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …and he wanted to do himself proud…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …and make the people like him.

SR: Was there a point when…when…when you could sense that Ed was seriously starting to write his own music when…when more and more t-…of their own tunes would start cropping up and was it…uh…The Whisky and Starwood or was it Gazzari’s?

Rudy: Uh…well, he’s always been kind’ve writing (distracted by something outside) Oh, wow…headfirst into the pole…He’s always been kinda writing, but…(coughs) for some reason, the one point that sticks out in my mind the most is when punk rock was real big. And…Dave, I remember Dave specifically saying we gotta write something that’s like this because this wass coming on in a big, big way…before New Wave, you know…and…although we wee all appalled by the music, umm…you couldn’t deny the fact that the kids were listening to it and dressing like it and buying it. And, you know, at that time, you know, The Ramones, The Sex Pistols and the…they were like the biggest thing in the news. And this was just at the burnout of disco. Disco was still the hottest thing and it was still everywhere, but the first “new” thing to happen was uh…the Punk scene.

SR: Right…

Rudy: And…you know, which was a funny thing because Van Halen just slipped in there and gave a re-birth to Hard Rock…in my opinion.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Because before that, there was a b…a…a good, big, you know, Heavy Metal band. Uh…Ted Nugent was around, but I don’t really think that he was… I think he was a lot of personality too. You know, the p-…the kids liked the personality and the, you know, the “Wild Man of Rock” and all of that, but Van Halen was a little bit more, you know, basic, Hard…Heavy Metal in that a lot of…a lot of people put ‘em in the same category as like Led Zeppelin or…that…you know, every garage band wants to be like Led Zeppelin…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …like…you know, like Van Halen was a lot like…you know, in the same…same league…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And I really…in my opinion, redeemed Heavy Metal for all of these kids in these garages who were putting, you know, the three or four different you know, uh…notes that they could finger on a guitar together. But, you know, they were just doing it in a different order for each song, the three or four different notes…and calling it “music”.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: You know, now these kids who were…who had the ability to play the guitar, once again, could say “Man…Heavy Metal. Alright, alright…and we’re gonna keep it going and keep on” …

SR: Yep.

Rudy: But uh…

SR: So, by the time they were out on the road, I mean, they were doing all original stuff…I mean other than the…The Kinks cover…

Rudy: Right…right…

SR: …they weren’t doing like a ZZ Top tune…

Rudy: No. No…no…

SR: …or anything for lack of material.

Rudy: There was about a year before we played anywhere. For 1977, we didn’t really play anywhere. Because uh…(the) label didn’t want us to play anywhere…we didn’t…

SR: You mean from the point you were signed?

Rudy: Yeah. When they got signed, they didn’t play anything. I think the last gig…uh…if I’m not mistaken, the last show Van Halen did…uh, was…New Year’s Eve at The Whisky-a-Go-Go.

SR: Before they were signed…is that what you’re saying?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah…just…or just before…just about that time, I believe that was the last gig that Van Halen played…

SR: So, the New Year’s Eve going into…

Rudy: 1978. 1977.

SR: 1977. And so, they were signed when?

Rudy: God, I don’t remember that date. Uh…early ’77 I believe. February or March…’77 I think it was.

SR: They were signed in February or March of ’77 and they were act-…they played the rest of that year?

Rudy: No. Didn’t play anything in ’77.

SR: They didn’t…they didn’t play one other gig until…

Rudy: Until we went on the road.

SR: That New Year’s gig…

Rudy: No! Until we went on the road.

SR: Oh, that was going into ’77, I’m sorry…Ok…ok…

Rudy: Right, right…Yeah, I believe that’s it. I believe that was it.

SR: And then…you…you were there that night at…at the Starwood...right?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah.

SR: When was that?

Rudy: That was a Sunday night…I don’t remember the date, but it was a Sunday night. And I remember there was maybe twenty people in the whole place. And that’s including the waitresses and the bartenders. And I remember it was a big, you know, oh boy, you know…Ted Templeman and…and Mo Ostin are gonna come down here…a big…big time from, you know, a label, they’re gonna come down…and…

SR: They knew they were coming down…the venue…

Rudy: Yes. Yes, because Marshall had set it up.

SR: Marshall.

Rudy: And uh…so they were…I remember they were sitting up in the…up in the…you know, the…at..at the Starwood at that time they had the upstairs…the private, you know…

SR: The “Hot 100 Club”.

Rudy: The “Hot 100 Club”. And they were sitting up there…and it…back in those days, what I would do when the set was over, immediately I would take the guitars up. Because what we would tend to do…is, you know, due to the fact that we… you’d have to do a set change ‘cause you’re playin’ again later that night, you would have to get the stuff off the stage…

SR: Mmm hmm…that’s right.

Rudy: … real, real fast. So I would ru-…always run the guitars up…to the…to the dressing room…

SR: Right, right…

Rudy: …real fast. And then come running back down and strike everything. Well this night umm…when it was the last set, I believe they came to…whatever, and I went upstairs and umm…the band was kicked…they kicked all their girlfriends out of the dressing room. And I remember the girls standing in the hallway going “Oh man…why…why do we gotta leave? Why do they…those guys are fucked!” you know… “Why do we gotta…” Oh they were pissed. (laughs) And I went…you know, I knocked on the door and they say “You can’t go in there… (makes annoyed noises)” …They opened the door and I got the guitars in my hands and they let me right in, right?

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Well, I…I knew who these bigshots were. So, I go “Man, there’s no way I’m gonna miss this.”

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: So, I get the rag out.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …and I’m standin’ there slowly strokin’ the neck of the guitar…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …with this ear on this side of the head, you know, just huge over there listening. And I remember uh…them (Templeman and Ostin) saying “Well listen, uh…this is what we’d like to do. You guys sounded pretty good and everything and…uh…what are you guys doing this week?” And (in the voice of the band) “Hey, oh, nothing-no nothing…” chimed together and uh…(chortles) (continuing in the voice of Templeman and Ostin) “You know, well uh…how about Thursday we’d like you guys to come out and record a demo for us…umm…would that be alright with you guys?” And they’re all (in the voice of the band again) “Yeah, yeah. Sure. Ok. Thursday. Yeah, sure. No problem. We’ll be there!” GREAT! And so, uh…you know then they left and it was all (in the voice of the band and crew) “Alright!” you know, “No prob! Big time! Big time”. Well, the next day, they called Alex and they sss…they told him “Listen, forget the demo. We wanna sign you.”

SR: Really? They called Alex?

Rudy: Yeah, I believe it was Alex they called…because and they gave Alex…they usually gave Alex and uh…Dave’s phone number for business and stuff like that. But uh…being as how Alex’s parents were always around…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …at least they would get the message. And uh…

SR: They were…they were both still living at home then, right?

Rudy: Yes. Oh yes.

SR: So, it was the same.

Rudy: Yeah. And uh…and so then, you know, they…the next day they called, they did that…and that was it! And so, that was one of those…that was I believe a first. That Warner’s had gone that far up and signed somebody, like that uh…you know…uh…no talent…

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: …without going through the demo…the…the pr-…

SR: Mmm…wow. Yeah…

Rudy: …the channels that they usually went through. And man…during the sign…during the recording of the album, Premier Talent, for the very first time ever, signed Van Halen. Unseen. Unheard. First time they’d ever done it. Just from the hoopla that they had heard that Warner’s had signed them…immediately when seeing them. And, you know, hearing that Gene Simmons had been interested in them. Now they came down after the Gene Simmons stuff, they had heard that, you know…that…

SR: Right…how…how long…

Rudy: …through the grapevine that, you know, that Simmons was…is interested in them…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …and at that time KISS was THE hottest thing…and no way they were gonna let, uh…Premier…I mean uh…uh…Bill Aucoin…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …you know, get away with another steal. But uh…that was uh…Simmons thing was a couple months prior.

SR: Couple months?

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: Were they a little disheartened after coming back from that and having Bill Aucoin say…

Rudy: No. Uh…. not really because…I think, in a way, they were relieved. Because…they really weren’t happy particularly Edward wasn’t happy with the way Simmons uh…was producing it…the…it, uh…the four tunes they did. And uh…they really had; I don’t know if…it really had a KISS-type sound…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …the way the music was mixed and everything, but…it was a blessing in disguise. And all along, uh…sss…Gene was saying that it was…he was doing it for a hobby…you know, but…I’m sure in the back of his mind, that he wanted uh…as a matter of fact, I know that he wanted uh…to get the band away from Dave. He didn’t like Dave at all. Uh…because…

SR: Really?

Rudy: Oh, no…because Dave uh…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Dave uh…you know, they all…Dave wanted to be there whenever they did anything. Number one…because he suspected this, uh…you know, what uh…what Gene was up to. He felt that (in Dave’s voice) “Hey, this guy’s tryin’ to, you know, undermine my interest here and I wanna keep an eye on it. And…so there was a…always a kind of little static there in between them. Uh…and I remember, I was there when uh…when Edward went down and…Edward and Alex went down and laid down the drum track and the lead guitar solos for “Christine Sixteen” …

SR: Really? Gene mentioned that…that’s great!

Rudy: And “Love Gun” …and one other tune I can’t remember. And to this day, I will swear that that guitar solo on “Christine Sixteen” is the same one Edward laid down.

SR: Really?

Rudy: I swear to God. And it was funny, because Edward first originally played it the way he thought it should be played. And Gene was all “No, no, no, no. Too sim…uh, too…too intricate. Simpler. Simpler.” And he tried it another way and “Simpler. Simpler” and after about six takes, finally Dave said…y-… “Can I talk to him?” He (Gene) said “Sure, go ahead.” And, you know, and then Dave you know, said “No, no…” you know, like baby talk or something…I don’t remember how he said it…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …but he got the message across to Edward. And then, the very next take, Edward played it just like Gene wanted it…

SR: Really?

Rudy: He’s (Gene) all “Yeah! Yeah! That’s it! That’s it! That’s it!” and uh…so then anyway, then they went to New York…or Gene had to go back to New York, because apparently what KISS used to do, is Gene would record the music…then he would send the tape to the other guys in the band…and then they would all, you know, learn it and rehearse it and then they would get together and rehearse it. So…Dave w-…I mean uh…Gene wanted to finish the stuff up and so they asked if the band could come to New York, and so he paid for them to come to New York…where you know uh…Dave did the uh…the vocals and stuff like that…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: But, uh…one thing that happened was uh…when…when Gene came back to town with KISS he called up the guys, you know (in Gene’s voice) “Yeah, hey, come on down to the show and everything, you know” …you know, he told…told them all. When they got down there, there was tickets for everybody…except for Dave.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: No tickets for Dave. So, you know…Dave (said) “Fuck it!” so he split. Well…well just this last year…uh…the…he (Dave) was in New York, I forget where he was, he might have been out here. He ran into Gene.

SR: Dave ran into Gene?

Rudy: Yeah, and he said “Hey Gene, how ya doin’? Good to see ya, long time…oh yeah, how ya been? Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah, yeah, yeah” …

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: (continuing as Dave) “Hey listen, we’re gonna be playin’ at The Forum, you wanna come down to the show? And he said “Yeah sure. I’d love to.” And he (Dave) goes “Great! Come on down, I’ll take care of ya!” …well...

SR: Did he really do that?

Rudy: …there was no tickets.

SR: Swear to God, this is true?

Rudy: True story.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Dave swore, someday he would get his revenge…and he got it. (matter of factly) He left no tickets for Gene Simmons.

SR: (laughs heartily) That’s great!

Rudy: Payback is a motherfucker.

SR: So, you think that…that…that guitar solo on “Christine Sixteen” is Ed’s?

Rudy: I still think it is. It sounds just…

SR: You know…I’ll…I’ll have to listen to it. ‘Cause I…I…I…I couldn’t say.

Rudy: Listen to it, man. Listen to the sss…just the sound quality…

SR: You know…if I…if I…

Rudy: It’s on the ‘Love Gun’ album.

SR: Yeah, if I had it, I’d…we’d listen to it right now.

Rudy: Sounds…oh, to me it sounds exactly like when I was standing in the control room. Watching…and listening. (enthusiastically) EXACTLY! (ed. note: Edward’s solo was in fact not on the ‘Love Gun’ album though Edward’s original solo was copied as close to note-for-note as the guitarist on the session could play it. Gene released the three song demos that featured Edward and Alex in November of 2017)

SR: Hmm…that’s great.

(tape ends)

Second Interview with Rudy (at Mexican Restaurant) 

Steven Rosen: Just a little bit about how you first met Edward, when you first met him and how the relationship came to be.

Robin “Rudy” Leiren: Well, I kinda knew him, you know, from school.

SR: You went to the same school?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah. Uhh…P.H.S. (Pasadena High School). But, uhh…years prior to that, (the) very first time I saw him was junior high school. Uhh…it was an assembly, you know, “mandatory”, you had to attend this thing, but what the hell-you’re getting’ outta class, that’s cool!

SR: (laughs) Right!

Rudy: Anyway, umm…I was sat way up in the balcony of Marshall Junior High School here in Pasadena, and downstairs was these three guys, you know…jeans, white t-shirts…standin’ there, playin’ Top Fourty…all the top, you know, rock…hard rock songs back then. And I’ll tell you what, from up there in the balcony, I was just spellbound.

SR: Really…

Rudy: I said to myself that, you know, “He’s my age…” and uhh…”He’s gonna be…He’s gonna BE!” (laughs)

SR: (laughs) Really? Who were the two guys?

Rudy: It was, uhh…Edward, Alex and Mark Stone. And uhh…for years, it was…you know, on the weekends if you wanted to go out and party that weekend, have a good time and, you know…meet the girls…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: It was where (it) was…at that time they were called “Genesis”… (in the voice of kids who wanted to party) “Where is Genesis playing?”.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And, uhh…so anyway, that’s, you know, pretty much how I knew ‘em back in those days was just goin’ to the parties and watching them play.

SR: So you just…he just saw you hangin’ out and just introduced himself and…

Rudy: Yeah, well…no, uhh…we were formally introduced by a mutual girlfriend…

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: …and, ummm…I guess it was a common reason to really have anything to say to one another…

SR: Right, right…

Rudy: …and about all we could agree on was that (in Rudy’s voice to Ed) “Hey…” you know, “Fuck her Ed! Let’s go party and have a good time!”

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: So uhhh…right off the bat, we agreed, you know, had a mutual understanding and got along. So uhhh…so we were…we went up to my house one night. We were sitting up there listening to some records and Edward really didn’t “collect” records…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …per se when he was younger. He had a few records of his own, but the only reason he had ‘em was because he wanted to play them over and over and over and OVER again and learn the licks…his, you know, favorites.

SR: I see…

Rudy: But, uhh…so he was going through my record collection, pulled out a few and asked if he could borrow them and I said “Sure” and we got to talkin’. I told him “Uhhh…listen, you know…if you ever need a hand…” and he kinda looked at me with this suspicious (in the hypothetical internal monologue of Edward) “Oh here he comes…” you know, and I said “No, really. You know, I know there’s a lot of work to be done. And I know that, you know, that stuff doesn’t just show up and it’s all party-I know there’s partyin’ there…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy:…that’s why I’m applying for the job-but, you know, if you ever need a hand, I’m willing to do the work, and so I...you know, I can enjoy the partyin’!”. He said “Ok”. So, about a month later he called and said “You remember what you said to me?” and I knew exactly what he was talkin’ about. I said “Yeah” and he goes “Well, next month, we’re gonna have our own show at the Pasadena Civic and we need some help. I want you to work for me.”. I said “I’d ne more than willing to do it, I’d LOVE to do it.” and uhh… “But there’s one thing. I would like to work between now and then…”…and … “…in order to find out what I’m supposed to do. I don’t wanna just show up and have something to do. You don’t have to pay me for it. I’ll do it for nothin’, just until I get to know what I’m doing…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …then you can pay me.” And I guess it impressed him enough, the fact that I was sincere…

SR: Uh huhh…

Rudy: …and I really did want to do it. And that…that was…boy, that was years ago, so May 17…I found out…May 17, 1974 was the first day I worked for the band.

SR: Really? Was that the beginning of the show (at the Pasadena Civic)?

Rudy: Uhh, no. It was…it was before the show. The reason I know is ‘cause I ran into a friend of mine here (the restaurant Steve and Rudy are sitting in during this interview) as a matter of fact.

SR: Really?!

Rudy: It was his little sister’s birthday party that they played at.

SR: Oh really?!

Rudy: Her Mom was a realtor, excuse me…and, uhh…so they rented a house. And…or one of the houses that she was selling was vacant and they used the house for the party…a surprise birthday party. And so that’s…that’s how I came to know the exact day.

SR: Hmm…

Rudy: But, uhh…before that, I had been hangin’ out…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …whenever they were playing in the bars. And uhh…I think the other guys in the band, their first…first recollection of me, probably (as) a drunken fool stumbling around the dance floor in front of the band. (laughs)

SR: (laughs) Really?

Rudy: Having a hell of a good time for everybody in the place.

SR: So, at what point did they change the name from Mammoth…I’m sorry…

Rudy: Genesis…

SR: Genesis…to, uhh…Van Halen?

Rudy: It went from “Genesis” to “Mammoth”…

SR: Oh, I see. I mean when they did the Pasadena Civic gig, what were they called then?

Rudy: (pause) Van Halen. Then, they were Van Halen. Umm…I came in…I came into, uhh…working for them a year after David joined the group. And when he joined the group, they changed it to Van Halen…because of, uhh…you know, both “Genesis” and “Mammoth” were names used by other bands…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …and the legalities coming…you know, (being) brought to their attention…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: …umm…convinced them that they should opt for something that nobody else had.

SR: Right. So, before Dave was in the band, Ed was singing, wasn’t he?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah.

SR: Was he a very good singer?

Rudy: Yeah, he was. He was. I’ll tell you what, if you ever want to hear a real good rendition of, uhh…”My Generation”, that guy, he could stutter!

SR: (laughs) Really?

Rudy: Oh, he did that song really good. Really good. I tell ya what, whenever I think about those dates, that is the song I think about him doing.

SR: Really?

Rudy: For some reason, I don’t know…I don’t know if it was necessarily a favorite of his to do, but I really liked the way he did it.

SR: So was…was Ed…I mean, Ed was already playing in the style, back then…did he already have the basic concept of what he was about then?

Rudy: Well…yes. Yes. He improvised…you know, upon the songs that they played, you know…the Top Forty songs that they played. He definitely accented it with a lot of his own flair. No doubt about it.

SR: Yeah. What kind of stuff was he using? Like, for the Pasadena Civic gigs…did he have a Strat?

Rudy: No, he didn’t, uhh…have a Strat until later. Back then he was playing on a Gi-, uhh…Les Paul goldtop.

Really?

Rudy: And, uhh…I think back then he had a V. Or no, just before that, he had a V. That was…that was unfortunately stolen.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: But, uhh…he didn’t…he didn’t get the Strat until later. And…at…at first I was kinda disappointed because I really used to appreciate what he could do with just a…you know, just a…six-strings and no vibrato.

SR: Really?!

Rudy: He could really bend those notes! Oh man! Beautiful. Really nice!

SR: Hmm…

Rudy: But, uh…I mean, look what we have today!

SR: Yeah…Right…right. Was he using Marshalls back then?

Rudy: Yes. Yes. He’s always had, uhh…his “baby” as we call it. It’s the very first amp he bought. And, umm…to this…to this day, he uses it.

SR: Really?

Rudy: He records in the studio with it. We retired it from the road about two or three tours ago. Umm…after taking a slight scare with it getting lost in uhh…air freight, we uhh…decided it was worth a lot more than…

SR: Yeah…yeah…

Rudy: …than we thought.

SR: So…describe that head to me.

Rudy: It’s uhh…old. Uhh…I think its early 60s? Uhh…you know, the plastic front, plastic back…umm…I think it’s…I can’t remember the serial number off the top of my head, but it’s…it’s early, it’s early. And uhh…you know, the old three toggle switch. And umm…I don’t…it looks like any other Marshall. (laughs)

SR: Yeah, yeah…. has anything been done to it?

Rudy: Uhh…of course. Now we’re…now we’re coming into, umm…sensitive territory. (laughs)

SR: Well, give me as much…go into it as much detail as you can.

Rudy: Well, it’s, as we say, it’s hotter. It…it runs a lot hotter. The bias has been turned up and…you know, the…I…if I were to just…let the thing run, as anybody would let a standard Marshall run, I would be fouling out this and that, you know, left and right the thing would be…it would be a mess. I have to re-tube it constantly…

SR: You do?

Rudy: Once a week I re-tube it. Sometimes…sometimes more. It really depends…the beating they take, you know, transferring ‘em. Uhh…they do go off the stage almost immediately after the shows and, you know, hot tubes…it’s like a light bulb.

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: You know, a hot light bulb, I tell ya it takes a little bump, and…you know, it’ll go out. A tube is the exact same way.

SR: Right…

Rudy: So…damage from that can occur, and it’s pretty sensitive, you know, you turn it on, it can sound right, and, you know, all of a sudden…whatever, the filament moves a little bit and it’s…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …you can fry the whole thing.

SR: Yeah. Have you changed the tubes? Have you used different kinds of tubes in there?

Rudy: Uhh…no. We still use the EL34s. And, uhh…that’s uhh…the Sylvania. Which are, you know, the fatter tube than the different brands.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And so they do run cooler…than the standard EL34s made by other companies. But uhh…yeah, the Marshalls have been modified. But you really can’t, you know…then again, there’s a lot of things that have been done to Marshalls. A lot of people have done a lot of things to Marshalls over the years.

SR: Right.

Rudy: You know, I…I swear by the man who’s holding the guitar.

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: You know, there’s a million combinations, there too.

SR: Right, right…

Rudy: But, umm…

SR: So that’s the main amp he’s used on virtually every record?

Rudy: Yes. Yeah. And we’ve just recently…uhh, found another Marshall…we bought somewhere, picked up somewhere along the road. I don’t…I don’t remember where and that’s…we’ve been able to, like I saud, we retired the other amp from the road, now we have another one we use on the road mainly. We use one Marshall…ummm, and we…from that, we power two power amps to power the rest of the stage. So in other words, I’m reproducing the sound across the whole stage from one Marshall. You have…so much problem…you use, you know, multiple heads and then you have so much problem walking…taking two steps left, two steps right and it’s a totally different sound. I remember for so long Edward used to really complain every time he went to stage right, he’d come back and yell “Goddamn, it sounds like shit over there!”. And you know, he didn’t really…he didn’t really appreciate having to run over there. And he did, for the benefit of the people over there, but uhh…you could really tell that he appreciated standing over in front of his own stack a lot more.

SR: Hmm…

Rudy: But this last year is the first time we did this…and, umm…now it’s like he can be anywhere…

SR: Really? Really?

Rudy: …and it’s like the freedom…versatility…it’s fantastic. You know, from downstage all the way up on top of the catwalk behind Alex, it sounds good.

SR: So explain exactly what you’ve done.

Rudy: Well, what we do is we power, uhh…what are they?

SR: H&H?

Rudy: H&H V800s. I power uhh…well, let’s count the speakers onstage…

SR: Ok…

Rudy: We have the upstage, uhh…four-twelve, which is right behind Edward. That is powered straight to the Marshall. Then downstage left we have, uhh…I know that we have two-twelve cabinets, which couple and are the equivalent of a four-twelve. And uhh…that’s…those are powered off of uhh…one of the V-800s….one of the H&Hs. I power the…the monitor for Alex…’cause we’ve had, over the years…Alex has gone through a lot of hell with the monitor mixers trying to get…you know, you gotta know this guy is struggling with all these different drums…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …in the monitors, and he’s gonna have to put the guitar in there and, you know, a little bit of vocal and this and that, so uhh…we came up with that idea…uhh, last year, of supplying the guitar monitor as well, that way it alleviates the monitor man one problem.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Not to mention, it…since it’s powered directly from Edward, the sound isn’t gonna vary. There has to be…no, uhh…corrections with that. And it’s at a constant level. SO the monitors uhh…for the drums can go wherever. And uhh…so basically what I’ve done is I’ve made it possible for the monitor mixer just to choke and turn red and (laughs) you know, want to kill himself having to struggle with the bass guitar bleeding through everything!

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Then uhh…stage right, I have…I power uhh… eight-twelves, two uhh… four-twelve cabinets upstage right.

SR: These are Marshall cabinets?

Rudy: Right. And then downstage right I have uhh…two more two-twelve cabinets. So basically what I’ve done is I’ve taken the guitar pretty much out of the sidefills as well and supplied the guitar myself for the stage on the sides.

SR: Hmm…

Rudy: What that does also is make problems a lot easier for uhh…the monitor mixer. It works out really good. And each…each side…each…downstage right, upstage right, Alex, upstage left, downstage left can…each separate area can be adjusted.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: You know uhh…depending on what channel they are coming out of on the H&Hs. So to do all of that, I use two H&H V800s and one Marshall.

SR: And that’s it?

Rudy: That’s it. And I use those same ones…uhh…for the whole tour, mind you…changing tubes and stuff like that. Uhh…and I had twelve Marshalls out with me and eight of the H&H V800s. And I never had to use any backup.

SR: Really?

Rudy: They were there ready to go but uhh…I never had to use anything.

SR: Hmm. What were you using previous to the H&Hs?

Rudy: All Marshalls.

SR: All Marshalls. How many Marshalls?

Rudy: Uhh…well, I had twelve, and we’d use six.

SR: Six tops?

Rudy: Six tops and we’d have six backup. So that way, (if) anything’d go wrong, immediately we’d have a complete back-up system. But you see that…then you come into the part where…you know, Edward is very particular. He wants things to be right.

SR: He is particular?

Rudy: Oh yeah. (emphatically) He wants things to be right. Not so much…(pause). Not so much for himself, but he really is conscious of what the people hear.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: It’s like, well… he doesn’t want to be misrepresented. He doesn’t like these…(pause). Even when…I remember when we were…when I’d just started working with him, you know, people would come up in the clubs and go “Come on, you gotta give me lessons. Ya gotta give me lessons!” and he’d go “Yeah, yeah. Maybe someday…maybe someday.” And the kid would smile and he’d turn and walk away and he’d go “Allright…allright!” and he’d (Ed) would turn to me and go “Rudy, I can’t give that guy lessons, ‘cause I’d teach him two things, he’s gonna turn around and run out and say ‘Yeah, Eddie taught me! Eddie taught me!’”. (laughs)

SR: (laughs) Right…

Rudy: And, you know, it’s…he has got…he’s got pride and it’s…

SR: Yeah. Yeah, I know he does.

Rudy: But in the same respect, that’s why when they play live, he’s very particular about the sound. You can tell. You can tell. It doesn’t take somebody who has been with him for ten years to see on his face that he’s not havin’ a good time up there.

SR: Mmm hmm.

Rudy: On a show when things are goin’ bad…

SR: Yeah. Yeah, right…

Rudy: But then, you know, it’s like…it’s like how bad is umm…you know, Eric Dickerson (one of the greatest running backs of all time in football, then with the Los Angeles Rams) on a bad day?

SR: Right. I know what you’re sayin’…

Rudy: You know…he’s still…

SR: On his worst day, he’s still better than everybody else.

Rudy: That’s RIGHT! (laughs)

SR: Oh, I know what you’re sayin’. I know what you’re sayin’. You don’t have to sell me on the guy. I know what you’re sayin’…

Rudy: (laughs)

SR: But, umm…so what did Ed go out with on the first tours?

Rudy: The first tour we went out with six…uhh…Marshall four-twelves…and…or three stacks.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: And six heads. And while we were out there, we were…Oh God, we were blowing up Marshalls two a week.

SR: Really?

Rudy: I tell ya…I had…I had cases of transformers…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: People…people you know, will buy maybe a transformer and a spare, but I could…oh, I was the transformer man!

SR: Wow. Why was he blowin’ them out?

Rudy: Umm…just the way, you know, back then it was before, you know, any modifications were done. And…Edward runs everything at full volume. Anything he has in his whole life, he runs at full volume.

SR: (laughs) He does. I mean that’s pretty…

Rudy: There is…there is a law with that man. And that is… “If there’s a knob on it, it’s meant to be turned all the way up!”

SR: (laughs) That’s the way he runs…everything?

Rudy: Oh yeah! Oh yeah! (excitedly) You can…you…when we used to have six Marshalls you could…you could check to make sure all of ‘em were set correctly in a matter of six seconds.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And that was by just taking the length of your finger and running it along the bottom of the…the knobs. And if they weren’t all the way turned up, by the time you did that, they were.

SR: That’s seriously how he runs his…?

Rudy: That is seriously…no exaggeration.

SR: Really?

Rudy: No exaggeration.

SR: Ok.

Rudy: Everything up. Full across.

SR: Wow.

Rudy: And that’s basic-…you know, I remember when we went to Japan one year. The Japanese were goin’ CRAZY to get his (Ed’s) attention, especially Yamaha. They were goin’ nuts-they couldn’t get his attention. (At) that time, he had been…he was into little race cars. And none of the companies could get his attention. Ibanez was coming…yeah, yeah..you know, for two minutes in the tune-up room if they got lucky and got in there, they could get his attention to look at some guitars, but anytime there was free time, forget about it! So, uhh…finally, somebody smart with the Yamaha people noticed that what he was filling his time with was these little…the computer remote controlled cars or whatever, you know…radio remote. That’s when they first came out. And he was goin’ and buyin’ all of these hot cars you know, and every time he would see one faster, he’d go and buy it! So one of the guys…they went back to the factory that night, They had their uhh…engineers put together this race car. So there’s Edward standing in the hallway the next day with his race car, sure enough first thing in the morning with his, you know, “Sleep Team” pajamas on.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: And he’s racing down the hall and the next thing is this car comes flashing past him like his isn’t even moving! They got his attention, needless to say. He went and listened, and they gave him the car. (laughs)

SR: That’s great…

Rudy: But uhh…

SR: So, I mean have you…have you noticed then…a change in…in Ed’s sound? Live? Or is it kind’ve a…

Rudy: I think it’s improved.

SR: You think it’s improved?

Rudy: Not that the sound has changed. I’m just saying that what we’ve been able to do has been able to reproduce the sound better live…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …now. And I think the majority of the idea…or the majority of it is the fact that we eliminated all the different Marshalls and I use the one Marshall to power everything.

SR: Right…

Rudy: And it’s reproduced cleanly through the uhh…the H&Hs.

SR: What kind of a guitar sound do you think Ed looks for? Could you…can you describe in your words what do you think he was going for?

Rudy: “The Brown Sound”.

SR: “The Brown Sound”…right!

Rudy: (laughs) You’ve heard that before?

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: That’s about all we can do is…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …you have to see the colors!(laughs)

SR: Yeah. Right. Right.

Rudy: You know, you hang around for about a month, drink a lot of Schlitz Malt, come to some of our parties, have a few laters,...Laters?! (to Steve who has no idea what Rudy is referring to as “laters”) you know, “Make ya later for the dance than you’ve ever been!” (laughs). But umm…you know it’s…I really…I guess the only way you can describe it is…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …a mass exposure. Heavy doses. Strapping your body to the front of the P.A.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …it would probably be the quickest way. But, it’s just…he can feel it. Like I said, I don’t play guitar…so I can’t feel it. But he can feel it when it’s bad.

SR: Right.

Rudy: And I can see it in his eyes!(laughs)

SR: Yeah. Right…right, right.

Rudy: It’s like, I remember uhh…one time we were out in Hollywood…I don’t remember exactly the occasion, but it’s like we were walking, you know, between some…from the car to a club. And there were some kids, you know, out uhh…behind some place smokin’ some dope, drinkin’ some beer or whatever and they were bangin’ on some pipes and everything. You know, and I remember him stopping and kinda listening, you know, like he’d heard…heard something that appealed to him. It’s like, you know, sounds…

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: …he’s really, really into that. Really into strange sounds…and picking things up. Like the uhh…you’ve seen where he plays the guitar… (demonstrates ed’s “tray table” mechanism and technique from the ‘1984’ tour)

SR: Right…

Rudy: …like a piano.

SR: Right.

Rudy: When I…when he first started playin’ like that, it was just like…it was like noise like you’ve heard anybody play. It’s like that. But he turned it into music. He heard somethin’ there. And he developed it.

SR: Can you describe what he’s doin’ there? In terms of…because I mean the sound of the guitar when he does that is like…bells. Is there a different mix or a different EQ sometimes that happens?

Rudy: It’s kind’ve like a…boy, I’ll tell ya what, who would know how to describe that?! It’s kind’ve trying to play Hawaiian-Flamenco-Punk music. On the piano, except you’re using a guitar.

SR: Right, right…which guitar does he use for that?

Rudy: Uhh…the…the Strat. The Kramer. I shouldn’t say “Strat”, I should say his “Kramer” (laughs)

SR: Kramer.

Rudy: Yeah. And…he can do it on any guitar.

SR: Yeah. Right…right.

Rudy: But uhh…that’s what he used…uses live.

SR: So by the time Ed went on tour for the first time, with the record, he was using the Strats?

Rudy: Yes. Yes.

SR: He had uhh… retired the Gibsons?

Rudy: Yeah. That had been…that had gone out years ago…years prior.

SR: Did you notice a change in his style or anything when he…when he went to the Fenders?

Rudy: Uhh…

SR: Or the Strat-types?

Rudy: Yeah…I kinda did. I mean, I kind’ve…it wasn’t like…it wasn’t like a loss, say. But, uhh…it was kind’ve like a sacrifice. You know…in other words, I love where he’s at today, but there was something that…something (in) the way…the way he could…he would play…just with a lot of feeling.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: You could really pick up a lot of feeling from him. Whereas with the…with the vibrato, at first, it was such…it was a change at first, because of the two drastic differences. You know, the vibrato, you can make a bunch of noise. But umm…

SR: Did you uhh…where you were with him at all in the early days when he was puttin’ the guitars together? I mean did he bounce any ideas off you or…?

Rudy: Basically what he would just do is I’d walk through and he’d say “Rudy, check this out!”, you know, and he’d do something and it…you know I guess he usually kind’ve told…could tell if…whether…whatever I said if I liked it or not.

SR: Mmm hmm. Mmm hmm.

Rudy: Umm, he’s always been pretty much one to read…read my mood and umm…so, you know, whether I’m happy…laughing…if I laugh, he’d kind’ve laugh and I’d be laughing with him…

SR: Mmm hmm. Right, right…

Rudy: …rather than at him and he’d go…you know, I like it.

SR: Right, right…

Rudy: So uhh…he was (a) pretty good judge by just reading my reactions.

SR: Right, right. So, can…can you describe the guitars that he now uses…onstage? I mean I know they’re “Kramers”…

Rudy: Yeah, he’s using Kramers. And the only other guitar we used this year was umm…a little guitar. And that’s made by a guy named Dave Petschulat in Nashville. And it’s a miniature guitar with actual guitar scale. And uhh…heavy gauge strings.

SR: Heavy gauge?

Rudy: Extra-heavy gauge.

SR: Do you know the gauges?

Rudy: I think…oooh…(pause) .10 to uhh (pause) .50 I think it is. They’re umm…they’re Ernie Ball “thin-top/little-bottom” or “thick-bottom”, something like that…”thick-top/little-bottom” (Ed. Note: Rudy is referring to Ernie Ball “Skinny Top/HEAVY BOTTOM” strings gauges from high to low .10, .13, .17, .30W, .42W and .52W). They’re standard…a standard set of strings. We tried to do a custom…umm…he wanted to go to a heavier gauge, but we started uhh…we noticed the neck was starting to bow a little bit, it was a little too heavy.

SR: Are those the regular pickups in there? Are those…?

Rudy: Those are uhh…custom wound small pickups. Replicas of the old humbuckers.

SR: What gauge did you say, does he use on the regular Strats?

Rudy: Extra-light.

SR: Extra-light…which is?

Rudy: Those are .009s.

SR: .009? Regular Ernie Ball .009 set?

Rudy: No, uhh…Fender.

SR: Fenders…

Rudy: Fender Extra-Light…

SR: Which…which Fenders? Are those the Bullets?

Rudy: No. Umm…I don’t know what they’re called. They’re just the standard Fender.

SR: Fender .009s?

Rudy: Yeah. I…uhh…XLs. Zero-Zero-Nine.

(pause to switch sides of the tape)

SR: …stuff that Ed does. I mean, Ed does, but he…to ask him what kind of strings he uses is like...he doesn’t want to…he just doesn’t want to talk about it.

Rudy: No. Yeah, he doesn’t need to think about those kind of things. You know that’s something that I…I’ve really felt guilty that I don’t play guitar. I mean, here, in my opinion, I work for THE premier…

SR: Mmm hmm…Mmm hmm.

Rudy: …guitarist in the world. I believe that EVERYBODY wants my job.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: I KNOW everybody wants my job.

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: But, I…I felt, you know, I’ve had the opportunity to learn to play. And God knows, maybe I woulda been the one that…(laughs) that Edward woulda shown something to…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: “But I swear I wouldn’t tell anybody!” he told me (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: I wouldn’t,,,I wouldn’t want to bring the shame to him! (laughs) No…anyway, ummm…I just…you know, I’ve…I’ve often felt “Wow, you know Rudy…you oughtta know how to play.” …I mean you talk to people and they say “Yeah, you play?” and I go “No!” and it shocks everybody, all the time!

SR: I don’t think it’s important though…that you play.

Rudy: Well, I’ve…what I…what I…I’m getting at is where I’ve felt insufficient there, inadequate there, I have tried to make up in other places…

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: I’ve really tried to provide him with things that he…I think that he should…menial things, that he shouldn’t have to think about.

SR: Mmm hmm.

Rudy: Cold drink ready for him…you know, cigarette when he turns around, lit and ready for him…umm…you know, whatever little extra things he wants…whatever little…

SR: Right…right.

Rudy: …whether it’d be one night he wants cold towels, the next night he might want some hot tea with honey in it. Those aren’t things he has every night, but if he needs ‘em at any time, I try to make sure I get ‘em up there for him.

Right…right, right.

Rudy: He has three different types of drinks mixed for him onstage, with three different types of booze-just because I don’t know what kinda mood he’s gonna be in that night (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Sometimes he’s in a hell of a mood and he drinks all three! (laughs)

SR: (laughs) Yeah…umm…Fender strings. Ed puts a little extra string tree for his high E and B string…

Rudy: Mmm hmm…

SR: Any reason why? I mean do you…do you know what I’m talking about?

Rudy: Yes. Yeah, yeah…the single screw…yeah that’s not really…hasn’t…no significance per se.

SR: And what else has Ed done to his…to the Kramers that he plays onstage?

Rudy: Simplified them. Basically just simplified them. You know he doesn’t have a Tone knob, just one pickup, one Volume knob…there you go again, the old Edward Van Halen philosophy…you know, that “If there’s a lot of knobs on it, they’re all meant to be up all the way anyway, so why put ‘em on there?’

SR: Right, right…what kind of pickups does Ed use…mainly?

Rudy: Umm…the old PAF humbuckers.

SR: Do you have any idea what years?

Rudy: I don’t. I don’t, off the top of my head. (Ed. Note: PAF, or “Patent Applied For” stickered pickups were made by Gibson roughly between 1956 and 1961) Umm…we’ve…we have gotten some newer pickups from some companies that have…made some…made some improvements…you know, some custom models…umm…DiMarzio has, you know, over the years, they’ve tried different experiments here and there. And uhh…but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we’ve used them, but they’ve done it.

SR: Right.

Rudy: It’s different companies over the years have gone and done things and we’ve picked them up and liked them, but sometimes companies discontinue them…

SR: Right…

Rudy: …sometimes the companies, you know, take the advice and go for it, but then again, it’s..you know…sometimes the companies need that versatility. You know, to really make a viable product that’ll sell, they’re gonna have to think about the guys that are into the rockabilly, the guys that play all the other kind of stuff. Not everybody’s gonna go out and put out, you know, six, eight hundred dollars on a guitar that basically is designed for high speed and, you know…fast turns!

SR: Right, right…so when you’re stringing Ed’s guitars, do you do anything special…to keep them in tune that you can talk about?

Rudy: Yeah, I don’t cut off the excess off the high E string when I’m done. (laughs)

SR: Seriously?

Rudy: That’s about it. (laughs) That’s about the only…well I’ll boil the strings.

SR: You do boil them?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah. That is the law. We have “steel spaghetti” twice a year.

SR: Really?

Rudy: Yeah.

SR: How…how often would Ed change strings on the road?

Rudy: Every night.

SR: Every night.

Rudy: Every night.

SR: What about in the studio?

Rudy: That’s a different story. I change ‘em when they break.

SR: When they break?

Rudy: Yeah. They got…they get a better sound…to a certain degree they can have a better sound when they get older and used.

SR: Yeah…right.

Rudy: But umm…he basically tends to keep ‘em. Doesn’t change them when he’s in the studio. But on the road, then again they lose their umm…their uhh…

SR: Brilliance?

Rudy: No they lose their strength. It’s so much easier, because in order to get something from the string you have to hit it hard, so in order to keep from breaking strings all the time on the road, we change the strings every night.

SR: Right, right…Umm…what about…what about uhh…Ed’s pedals? Have those changed over the years?

Rudy: Oh well, I’ll tell ya what…I really wish that we…that people could have uhh…see the way the original system was set up. Well, our very first tour was with Journey. And I remember their uhh…at that time the stage manager was uhh…Bubba…

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: I can’t…you know Bubba?

SR: Bald guy…

Rudy: Yeah, right…who is now their road manager. And uhh…really, that guy, oh…fuckin’ helluva guy.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Anyway, he was…he was a good help back then, to all of us…and uhh…my stuff was pretty much the spaghetti factory…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …every night it was just…I would have…a good half-hour after I got off the stage winding the cables up because when we went out, a lot of the stuff was just added in the end…you know, made new cables and all that kinda thing and those things and...so, with a little bit of help, and a little bit of experience, you learn the hard way…

SR: Mmm hmm...

Rudy: …I finally snaked everything up and made it a little bit easier. But uhh…the pedalboard in those days was…was umm…there was an audio. There was an actual…you know, the line because we didn’t have cordless. So the pedalboard you know, we plug in the pedalboard out on the stage and all the way to the…well back then, it’s…we had the amps down stage left on…out on the stage on the side. And that was to eliminate audio line…in order to keep it as short as possible, losing the signal you know, the longer the line.

SR: Right…

Rudy: And umm…when we first started…when we…the first cordless we used…we tried, was the Schaffer-Vega (Ed. note: the Schaffer-Vega Diversity System) and in order to duplicate the sound…uhh…one of the things we did was we put like a forty foot cable in between the receiver and the front of the amp because the thing was so crisp and brilliant…

SR: Hmm.

Rudy: And that’s one of the things that buffered it down a little. It got the “sound of a cord” we called it, because it wasn’t really line-level as I said. Uhh…(pause) but anyway, the pedalboard was uhh…a couple of MXR effects-Flanger, phase shifter. And then there was, we used uhh…the old Echoplex. And that was basically it, as far as the effects went and they were all taped on a board with the cables hangin’ out of them. And, you know…the old “change the battery every three days” type of thing. And uhh…

SR: So you still…I mean, you didn’t change ‘em so they ran off of a tap because they were still using batteries?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah…because there, if we’re gonna go with the plugs, we’re gonna go with the problems again. We did find out…the one thing that did change…different halls we were playing, was that the power. And so…I mean those were low-voltage things, but it was just…at the time, the budget, you know and all that kinda thing it was just “Stay with batteries”. Which kinda sounds stupid too, I mean, batteries…you do have to buy the batteries! (laughs) You know, what you do is you get the left overs from the mics from the night before. (laughs)

SR: (laughs)Umm…

Rudy: There are ways to cut these expense corners.

SR: Right. And what uhh…what was Ed’s pedal setup on the last tour?

Rudy: We built the pedalboard. It was umm…a few people knocked heads on it. Myself…uhh…a guy named Jim Rose and a guy named Marty Ray from Flagg Systems. Wd knocked heads on it. And uhhh…they put it together. And what it is…is it’s uhh…it has seven relays…uhhh…it’s electronic switch rather than a true relay. And umm…I have the capacity with the relay system now, rather than having to only have one pedalboard, I can have multiples. I can have five pedalboards going across the stage, each one of them running the same effects. Which makes a lot of versatility. I mean it’s fantastic, ‘cause now Edward doesn’t have to run all the way back to his mic to change effects. And at the same time I have at the main station, I have my own switcher. So for a lot of the things that we did during the tour, I would switch in the back…

SR: Oh really?

Rudy: …during the solo, for instance, I could do some of the switching of effects and he didn’t have to be anywhere near the pedalboard.

SR: Hmm. So does he actually have more than one set of pedals?

Rudy: Yes. This year we had the pedalboard in front of his mic, downstage left and on the downstage left side of Alex’s drum riser…up on top.

SR: Right.

Rudy: He had one right there when he would come down the steps from the umm…uhh…whatever we call that…the doo-wah-diddy back there. Umm…what was that thing called?!(laughs) It’s been so long…we’ve been home since September! (laughs)

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: Ohhh…you know what I’m talkin’ about…

SR: That catwalk?

Rudy: The catwalk. That’s it…(excitedly) very good! (laughs). Umm, yeah, when he’d come down from the catwalk, he’d often just step right up onto the riser there and he had a pedalboard there.

SR: Mmm hmm.

Rudy: And then we had one back in the quick-change booth. With…with the effects. Which was really, I think, everybody should have because how many times…when a guitarist is workin’ on his sound and the effect, how many times do you have to go out to the front, switch the button on, check the effect, go back, set the effect, come back out, you know…play it again, turn it off, check it and turn it…I mean it’s…half the time was spent walking back and forth you know, if you have the button right there next to the effects, you can do all the work right there.

SR: And what…what pedals were in there?

Rudy: It was uhh…basically the same pedals we had before.

SR: MXR?

Rudy: Uhh…we had the…well, they’ve been modified now. Now they are off of batteries! (laughs) We do have the 9-volt power supply, a few of the umm…components inside have been replaced with a little more heavier duty components. The umm…the actual effects themselves are a little more versatile, a little cleaner in what they do. Umm…they’re not quite the fifty dollar effects they used to be. They are fifty dollar effects taken out of the box and…and souped up and dressed to look like a Cadillac.

SR: Right. Right…so it’s just the MXR stuff? Is he still using the Echoplex?

Rudy: Uhh, no…now we use the…(pause) God, what are we using for echo?! Oh, it’s an MXR echo unit. I’m not sure the model, I can get the model for ya. I should’ve, as a matter of fact, if I would have thought about that, I could’ve brought down a picture of the effects rack and all too.

SR: Mmm…

Rudy: You need anything like that?

SR: Yeah. I could definitely use that.

Rudy: Yeah, I’ll get ya some pictures of the gear.

SR: That’d be great.

Rudy: You know, the synthesizers and all that stuff.

SR: Yeah. What kind of synthesizers does he use?

Rudy: Uhh…I was going to say “MXR” (laughs)…OBX. Or “Oberheim” I should say. Umm…OB-8s. We took on the road. And uhh…also, mini uhh…Michael was using Mini-Moog also. But Edward was just playing the OB-8.

SR: Right, right…Do you wanna take a break here?

Rudy: Sure.

(Tape Stops and Resumes)

SR: Umm…where were we? What kind of wireless is Ed using now?

Rudy: We’re using uhh…Nady.

SR: Which one?

Rudy: The old one…the…the diversity…the…I think it’s a 300 or 400 Pro. Umm…you know, for a while we had some problems with it. It just uhh…it was their earlier…umm…system. And umm…we picked up on an early…very…the very first one we used was Schaffer-Vega, but it had so much background, you know…hiss on it that just…you couldn’t play quietly or you know, in-between songs it was just so obnoxious that we just went back to the cord. So finally we went…we got the uhh…tried the Nady FM…and uhh…the main problem that we had with it was it was range.

SR: Range?

Rudy: Range…

SR: Physical range?

Rudy: Yeah, physical range wasn’t what we had gotten used to…umm…with the uhh…the Schaffer-Vega. (With) the Schaffer-Vega, you could go to the back of the room…and with the Nady FM, you were pretty limited. But uhh…in addition to that, we had, you know there was drop-off and you know problems with that. Dead spots where it would totally cut out. And umm…for a long time it was just like, sending it to the company, them sending it back and…you know…big circle…we ran in circles for a couple years and then finally we just…the company and myself got together and said “Listen, let’s once and for all…” because in past articles Edward had brought out the fact that he was…you know, people would ask him “What are you most dissatisfied with?” and he’d say “My cordless”. And umm…now, we’ve…we’ve worked on it with them and it’s improved dramatically. As a matter of fact, umm…the VHF unit of theirs, we had when we were last time up there in the Bay Area…excuse me…they came in and I sent both units back to the shop and they did some modifications on the VHF to bring it almost to the same standards as the FM. So, it’s like we are just half a step away from umm…perfecting that and once we do and once we go to the VHF it will be just…heaven. But as of right now, we are still with the FM and in certain situations, in certain conditions we have problems with it but the people up at Nady have been really helpful in trying to eliminate it. They…once…once we started workin’ with ‘em, you know, directly on the problems it started coming together really good.

SR: Does Ed go wireless in the studio?

Rudy: No. No. It uhh…the studio is pretty small…

SR: Yeah…

Rudy: …and uhh…he tends just to use the cord…that he’s used to. The amp doesn’t leave the studio anymore and the different effects that he uses in the studio are duplicate to the effects that we take on the road. So, it’s like, there’s two systems-one that just stays in the studio and the only thing being different is the fact that we do use cordless on the road. And uhh…not in the studio.

SR: Do you know what kind of cables he uses? Guitar?

Rudy: Guitar cables? Belden.

SR: He does?

Rudy: Uh huh…

SR: What kind of picks does he use?

Rudy: Umm...I believe the last ones I ordered were from D’Andrea.

SR: D’Andrea?!

Rudy: Yeah. They’re the same people who make the picks for Fender. We were…we were chasing down the different picks for so long. Finally we ended up with D’Andrea. We found out…he did…of all the commercial picks, he liked the Fender uhh…tortoiseshell. And so we went…I found out who made them, called Tony D’Andrea and we uhh…got together through the mail and over the telephone and got…got a logo on both sides of the pick.

SR: Mmm hmm…

Rudy: Umm…

SR: Are they Mediums?

Rudy: Yeah. Well, we started with Mediums. Uhh…they make a new pick there now that is a non…uhh…it’s a porous pick. It’s…it’s a tortoiseshell, but it’s…it looks like it’s been sandblasted.

SR: Huh…

Rudy: And when they first made it, they had their…I think it’s called a no…uhh… “no-slip grip” or somethin’ like that. And that’s a trademark. And on the other side, you could have your logo put on it and normally tortoiseshell, you could see through it but since it had been sandblasted you really couldn’t.

SR: Hmm…

Rudy: Well we didn’t want their name on the one side and due to the copyright reasons, they couldn’t take it off, and so they helped us out, they worked with and asked their lawyers and they did give us permission to use our logo on one side and Edward’s signature on the other…

SR: Uh huh…

Rudy: Which was…we were the first to…they did that for. I don’t know if they do it for anybody else yet. But they were really helpful in that. But while we waited for those (Ed. Note: These were Medium gauged picks that Rudy ordered from D’Andrea. Edward used Fender Medium brown tortoise colored celluloid picks from at least the late club days around 1976 through the US Festival appearance on May 29, 1983), we…in the meantime, we ordered some…you know, uhh- .48mm (Ed. Note: D’Andrea “Thin” gauged picks run between .46mm and .48mm in thickness) umm…picks…uhh…white plastic and he fell in love with those. And now he uses those instead! (laughs)

SR: (laughs) What a guy…(in a hilarious, sarchastic voice)

Rudy: Ummm…anyway…if you know anybody that wants to buy any of these…

SR: (laughs)

Rudy: …I got like TONS of ‘em! (laughs)

SR: Ummm…what kind of mics do you use to mic Ed’s stuff live? Is it a certain kind of mics you use?

Rudy: No…umm…we use a 58. Shure. I really…it is Shure, isn’t it?

SR: Yeah.

Rudy: I’m sure it’s Shure. Yeah.

SR: Do you know…about the studio? What he does?

Rudy: Umm…there’s a variety of things they do. I don’t know exactly.

SR: Ed might know more about that?

Rudy: Yeah. Yeah, Ed will know more about that…

SR: Hopefully…

Rudy: That’s right. The only time that I get in the studio, basically, is when I go over and, you know, listen to the things they’re doing or…when they call up my “studio cleaning service” which, by the way is new in the business and uhh…it’s called ‘Strawberry Cleaners’. We uhh…come over there and we just do a total clean-out…the whole thing. ‘Cause we’re very good at uhh…staying away from sensitive areas and uhh…

(Tape Ends)