Wonderful job on the interview with Mark Lettieri…I have to say that I feel like you went more in depth on the ‘5150’ album and I LOVE IT! This was the tour where I first saw Van Halen from the front row directly in front of Eddie’s mic stand at the Frank Erwin Center in Austin, TX on October 4, 1986. I got an unused Eddie pick from Zeke Clark before the show, I caught one from Eddie during the guitar solo and I caught two picks from Michael Anthony. For a then just turned 14 year old boy, this was heaven!
So here are a few observations/clarifications that I might be able to offer:
1. The tuning on “Good Enough” is as follows, to the best of my knowledge with the gear that I have available:
1st string: E -2.3 cents 2nd string: B -2.1 cents 3rd string: G -0.4 cents 4th string: D 0.0(no change from standard equal temperament) 5th string: A 0.0(no change from standard equal temperament) 6th string: A -50.0 cents
The tuning on the 6th string will vary depending on the gauge string you use. I used a .52 gauged string which is the largest string that will fit through a standard Floyd Rose saddle/nut and standard 6th string tuning post, but a standard guitar will require modifications to be set up the way Eddie set up his guitar for the song. He used a .60 gauged bass string.
In the September 1986 issue of Guitar World, Eddie and Zeke Clark provided some information about the three main live guitars that Eddie used on the 5150 tour, including the specs used for “Good Enough”. The ‘1984’ Kramer (that Eddie gave Wolfgang as a gift and that is now in his possession today) was fitted with a black Floyd Rose system that was then reamed out to fit a .60 gauged Steinberger bass string which is a D string in a Steinberger light gauged 4-string bass set of strings. Of course the double ball-ends were removed. So the saddle, Floyd nut and the tuning post had to be filed to accommodate this larger string. This is how Eddie was able to do his usual Floyd Rose tricks while still having the low A bass note on the bottom. According to the article, this was how the ‘1984’ guitar was set up for the album and live tour versions of “Good Enough”.
2. The overall guitar sounds on the album were still being recorded with Eddie’s main Marshall head and other Marshall amps for the album sessions and the live tours through the end of the 0U812 touring cycles. Eddie got the Soldano SLO-100 head some time around April of 1990. He was first photographed with that head on April 22, 1990 at the opening of the Cabo Wabo Cantina in Cabo San Lucas. That amp then became the main amp heard on the ‘For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge’ album. You rightly pointed out the unusual tones coming from the EMG pickups and the Steinberger on “Get Up” and “Summer Nights”…I think that adjustments or just plain differences in EQ approach almost certainly resulted from using the Steinberger versus other standard guitars. Eddie said in the September 1986 issue of Guitar World regarding the Steinberger: “I’m used to a piece of wood and this thing is like plastic. It was kind’ve alien to me. I had to change a few things to make it sound right. For instance, I had to use my amp differently-I had to use a bassier input. But I talked to Ned Steinberger and he made some different pickups. They’re still EMGs, but they’re a little warmer-sounding to me than the ones he (originally) sent to me.
The use of stereo Eventide H949 Harmonizers for the detune chorus sound on the guitars on the whole album is fairly well documented, but it certainly became more pronounced on the ‘5150’ album. I think this is down to Eddie and Donn Landee’s preference at the time.
3. According to Eddie, all the drums on ‘1984’ were Simmons pads and the acoustic snare was still going. Al had to then overdub all the cymbals AFTER the Simmons parts were recorded. Photos of the 5150 studio around the time just after the recording of ‘1984’ and ‘5150’ seem to support this, so to the best of my knowledge, this is exactly how the drums on ‘5150’ were recorded. I just wanted to mention this so that it could be noted that ‘5150’ was not the first all-Simmons Van Halen album.
4. The lead guitar on “Love Walks In” is obviously a neck pickup sound. It is a mystery guitar because there are no interview references to what guitar he used on the recording. The lead on “Love Walks In” is very similar to the lead on “I’ll Wait” which is also a neck pickup sound. The guitar which was used to record the solo on “I’ll Wait” is also a mystery guitar…no interview references for that either. I hear a “gainier” sound on the “Love Walks In” lead parts versus the “I’ll Wait” solo. That could be down to any number of reasons…could be grind from the Eventide? Could be a guitar with a humbucking neck pickup on “Love Walks In” versus a single coil neck pickup on the “I’ll Wait” solo? I do not have a definitive answer. One thing that you seem to be theorizing in your breakdown of this song is that the lead sounds slightly out of tune and that this could be because he used a vintage style strat guitar with single coil pickups and a vintage style, non-locking vibrato system. My ear tells me that the vibrato bar use on both the “I’ll Wait” solo and on the “Love Walks In” leads is a Floyd Rose. They just have a certain slack in the vibrato bar action that screams Floyd Rose to me on both recordings. I have only one theory about a guitar that might have been used on both tracks. In a 1990 Dutch TV interview I saw a sunburst Fender strat with a rosewood board and a black Floyd Rose system on it in the 5150 studio right next to some of Ed’s more famous guitars…ie. the 5150 Kramer, the vintage Flying V, a Ripley, etc. To the best of my knowledge, this is the only strat with the vintage three single coil pickup configuration that Eddie owned with a Floyd Rose vibrato system. At least this is the only one that I’ve ever seen a photograph of. To my mind, this is at least a potential candidate for being the guitar used on the “I’ll Wait” solo and the leads from “Love Walks In”.
5. According to some unverified sources, Eddie used his famous vintage ‘58 Gibson Flying V on the main guitar track for the title song “5150”. There is no vibrato bar work on the main guitar track and this could very well be the case. I can’t substantiate this with any concrete interview reference or other evidence, but it is a possibility. I believe Eddie used the 5150 Kramer for the leads on the track and for most of the leads on the album. I don’t believe there is any vintage strat on this track.
6. As you noted, Eddie used a vintage Fender strat on “Best of Both Worlds”. This has been confirmed by Eddie in interviews, though he has two different vintage strats that would be the likely candidates for use on the recording of “Best of Both Worlds”. One is the 1964 rosewood board sunburst Fender strat on which he carved “5150” into the front of the guitar. He has confirmed that he used that guitar on “Finish What Ya Started” and it might be the vintage strat that he used for the solo on “When It’s Love”. It’s also a possibility that he used it on “Best of Both Worlds”. The other candidate is a 1957 vintage sunburst Fender strat that has a maple Fender Telecaster neck. As far as I can tell, these two strats are the most likely candidates for being the “Best of Both Worlds” vintage strat.
I need to investigate some more on the tunings on “Dreams” and some other things that I may have missed. These were some observations that I wanted to share-I could be totally off base and there’s always new information coming to light, but on first listen to this excellent installment of ‘Runnin’ With The Dweezil’ these are my first thoughts, for whatever they are worth!
Loved the episode ! Keep going. so fascinating. If you ever get a chance to talk to John Shanks or Wolfgang VH that would be awsome! George from Chicago.
Dweezil, you have delivered another great episode and it also seems on a meteorological level too as it’s burning hot in the UK at present- This is what Van Halen is all about.
I keep re-listening to that Paul Gilbert episode and it never fails to make me happy. So much enthusiasm and insight. His analysis of Dave’s vocal phrasing is nothing short of a delight. Any chance you can get Billy Sheehan for a bonus episode? I just discovered his bass cover of “Mean Streets” off of the 2000 Niacin album today. Pure joy.
You didn't miss anything. The new episode is coming along. It requires some very tedious editing to remove delayed audio caused by zoom. I have to make edits every couple of seconds throughout an entire 2 hour conversation. It's taking weeks of my time but it's the only way to make the audio sound good enough for the show. Sorry for the delay everyone, it's coming!!!
Hi Dweezil , hope this finds you well ? loving all the episodes - multiple listens on all . Just wondered if you had ever approached Rudy Leiren as a potential guest ? . Also I have a Red Vinyl double album live from 19 /06/81 LA Sport Arena , I was told that VH were going to release it as a live album though never did ( I bought this around 1984/85 for £20) Any thoughts?
I haven't been in touch with Rudy. I would love to speak with him. I don't believe I've heard that sports arena recording. Is it an audience recording or is it a board mix?
Hi Dweezil , the recording doesn't have the finesse of a board recording but does sound like a rough mix, as there's no booming distorted drum sounds , if it is via the audience its pretty good - it still has fantastic mighty VH energy level all through it .
I'm looking forward to the Sammy era episodes. I have to admit that I mostly listened to the DLR era and never paid that much attention to the Sammy stuff. I have all the albums, but the early stuff gets played the most!
It will be nice to explore the Sammy era with Dweezil and his guests.
I’m sure I speak for many people when I say that I’m very much looking forward to the next phase of the RWTD. We have all greatly enjoyed the ‘early years’ and I’m sure we have all listened to them several times over- really, they have been fantastic! I am a great fan of both eras and appreciate both the frantic enthusiasm of the early years for all it gives us and the more polished songwriting of the Hagar years. I got into VH during the 5150/OU812 years so loved them even before catching up with their back catalogue.
And for me in rainy UK, 5150 represents sunny days and hot summer nights!
It's almost 5150 time. I've been working hard on the episode and have found some cool extra audio tidbits to include. I'll be notifying everyone of the release ASAP.
Dweezil, after listening through all the podcast, the 2 with Blues are still my favorites. Couple of factoids, I came across a Nicolette Larson album in a record shop called "Raidoland". It came out in 1980 so I presumed it was the record that you where referring to when Ed played a guest solo since that is the same year that "WACF" came out (where Nicolette sang background vocals on Could this be Magic?) But the dates don't match up. I discovered that the song Ed played on was from her debut album in 1978 simply called "Nicolette" Logic would be that when she recorded her debut (with Ted Templeman) in 1978, VH was tracking their debut at the same time and Ed would do his guest solo at this time. Then a couple years later when she was recording her third album, VH was also recording their 3 album and at this point she would return the favor and sing back vocals.
Also you both note that until WACF the Eddie had not did a lot of overdubs but Jamie's Cryin from the first album has dubs all over it, especially the intro and outro, not parts that weave together subtlety but clearly 2 guitars on top of each other...just sayin'
Love you guys, can't wait for the Van Hagar deep dives, like you I'm here for the whole tone chasing ride!
In the "Reverse Engineering The Brown Sound" episode, will the information given be able to be applied to any piece of gear, such as amp modellers from Boss, Line 6, Axe FX, etc?
Thanks for asking. That will be a tough episode to make especially if the goal is to broadly apply the research as you're suggesting. That said, I do have some ideas to share across multiple platforms when the time comes.
Loved the Satchel episode too. To hear (live performed) guitar quotes during the discussion an excellent idea.
Still waiting for the episode or bonus that shows us how to come in correctly on Panama and Hot for Teacher. Mini-Tutorials would be a nice add to this podcast. 15 min clip or something to chew on.
The live version of the song, 5150 from Live Without a Net is so killer. Such a great show from the 5150 era.
Absolutely!
Wonderful job on the interview with Mark Lettieri…I have to say that I feel like you went more in depth on the ‘5150’ album and I LOVE IT! This was the tour where I first saw Van Halen from the front row directly in front of Eddie’s mic stand at the Frank Erwin Center in Austin, TX on October 4, 1986. I got an unused Eddie pick from Zeke Clark before the show, I caught one from Eddie during the guitar solo and I caught two picks from Michael Anthony. For a then just turned 14 year old boy, this was heaven!
So here are a few observations/clarifications that I might be able to offer:
1. The tuning on “Good Enough” is as follows, to the best of my knowledge with the gear that I have available:
1st string: E -2.3 cents
2nd string: B -2.1 cents
3rd string: G -0.4 cents
4th string: D 0.0(no change from standard equal temperament)
5th string: A 0.0(no change from standard equal temperament)
6th string: A -50.0 cents
The tuning on the 6th string will vary depending on the gauge string you use. I used a .52 gauged string which is the largest string that will fit through a standard Floyd Rose saddle/nut and standard 6th string tuning post, but a standard guitar will require modifications to be set up the way Eddie set up his guitar for the song. He used a .60 gauged bass string.
In the September 1986 issue of Guitar World, Eddie and Zeke Clark provided some information about the three main live guitars that Eddie used on the 5150 tour, including the specs used for “Good Enough”. The ‘1984’ Kramer (that Eddie gave Wolfgang as a gift and that is now in his possession today) was fitted with a black Floyd Rose system that was then reamed out to fit a .60 gauged Steinberger bass string which is a D string in a Steinberger light gauged 4-string bass set of strings. Of course the double ball-ends were removed. So the saddle, Floyd nut and the tuning post had to be filed to accommodate this larger string. This is how Eddie was able to do his usual Floyd Rose tricks while still having the low A bass note on the bottom. According to the article, this was how the ‘1984’ guitar was set up for the album and live tour versions of “Good Enough”.
2. The overall guitar sounds on the album were still being recorded with Eddie’s main Marshall head and other Marshall amps for the album sessions and the live tours through the end of the 0U812 touring cycles. Eddie got the Soldano SLO-100 head some time around April of 1990. He was first photographed with that head on April 22, 1990 at the opening of the Cabo Wabo Cantina in Cabo San Lucas. That amp then became the main amp heard on the ‘For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge’ album. You rightly pointed out the unusual tones coming from the EMG pickups and the Steinberger on “Get Up” and “Summer Nights”…I think that adjustments or just plain differences in EQ approach almost certainly resulted from using the Steinberger versus other standard guitars. Eddie said in the September 1986 issue of Guitar World regarding the Steinberger: “I’m used to a piece of wood and this thing is like plastic. It was kind’ve alien to me. I had to change a few things to make it sound right. For instance, I had to use my amp differently-I had to use a bassier input. But I talked to Ned Steinberger and he made some different pickups. They’re still EMGs, but they’re a little warmer-sounding to me than the ones he (originally) sent to me.
The use of stereo Eventide H949 Harmonizers for the detune chorus sound on the guitars on the whole album is fairly well documented, but it certainly became more pronounced on the ‘5150’ album. I think this is down to Eddie and Donn Landee’s preference at the time.
3. According to Eddie, all the drums on ‘1984’ were Simmons pads and the acoustic snare was still going. Al had to then overdub all the cymbals AFTER the Simmons parts were recorded. Photos of the 5150 studio around the time just after the recording of ‘1984’ and ‘5150’ seem to support this, so to the best of my knowledge, this is exactly how the drums on ‘5150’ were recorded. I just wanted to mention this so that it could be noted that ‘5150’ was not the first all-Simmons Van Halen album.
4. The lead guitar on “Love Walks In” is obviously a neck pickup sound. It is a mystery guitar because there are no interview references to what guitar he used on the recording. The lead on “Love Walks In” is very similar to the lead on “I’ll Wait” which is also a neck pickup sound. The guitar which was used to record the solo on “I’ll Wait” is also a mystery guitar…no interview references for that either. I hear a “gainier” sound on the “Love Walks In” lead parts versus the “I’ll Wait” solo. That could be down to any number of reasons…could be grind from the Eventide? Could be a guitar with a humbucking neck pickup on “Love Walks In” versus a single coil neck pickup on the “I’ll Wait” solo? I do not have a definitive answer. One thing that you seem to be theorizing in your breakdown of this song is that the lead sounds slightly out of tune and that this could be because he used a vintage style strat guitar with single coil pickups and a vintage style, non-locking vibrato system. My ear tells me that the vibrato bar use on both the “I’ll Wait” solo and on the “Love Walks In” leads is a Floyd Rose. They just have a certain slack in the vibrato bar action that screams Floyd Rose to me on both recordings. I have only one theory about a guitar that might have been used on both tracks. In a 1990 Dutch TV interview I saw a sunburst Fender strat with a rosewood board and a black Floyd Rose system on it in the 5150 studio right next to some of Ed’s more famous guitars…ie. the 5150 Kramer, the vintage Flying V, a Ripley, etc. To the best of my knowledge, this is the only strat with the vintage three single coil pickup configuration that Eddie owned with a Floyd Rose vibrato system. At least this is the only one that I’ve ever seen a photograph of. To my mind, this is at least a potential candidate for being the guitar used on the “I’ll Wait” solo and the leads from “Love Walks In”.
5. According to some unverified sources, Eddie used his famous vintage ‘58 Gibson Flying V on the main guitar track for the title song “5150”. There is no vibrato bar work on the main guitar track and this could very well be the case. I can’t substantiate this with any concrete interview reference or other evidence, but it is a possibility. I believe Eddie used the 5150 Kramer for the leads on the track and for most of the leads on the album. I don’t believe there is any vintage strat on this track.
6. As you noted, Eddie used a vintage Fender strat on “Best of Both Worlds”. This has been confirmed by Eddie in interviews, though he has two different vintage strats that would be the likely candidates for use on the recording of “Best of Both Worlds”. One is the 1964 rosewood board sunburst Fender strat on which he carved “5150” into the front of the guitar. He has confirmed that he used that guitar on “Finish What Ya Started” and it might be the vintage strat that he used for the solo on “When It’s Love”. It’s also a possibility that he used it on “Best of Both Worlds”. The other candidate is a 1957 vintage sunburst Fender strat that has a maple Fender Telecaster neck. As far as I can tell, these two strats are the most likely candidates for being the “Best of Both Worlds” vintage strat.
I need to investigate some more on the tunings on “Dreams” and some other things that I may have missed. These were some observations that I wanted to share-I could be totally off base and there’s always new information coming to light, but on first listen to this excellent installment of ‘Runnin’ With The Dweezil’ these are my first thoughts, for whatever they are worth!
D-weez!
Loved the episode ! Keep going.
so fascinating. If you ever get a chance to talk to John Shanks or Wolfgang VH that would be awsome! George from Chicago.
Hi George, I did interview John Shanks for an upcoming episode. Of course I'd love to speak to Wolfgang. Hopefully that will happen at some point.
John Shanks!!! Can’t wait !! that’s amazing. Good job my man. Keep up the great work.
george from Chi town!
It’s 5150 time!!
Once again, great episode. Really enjoyed the insights from both of you. Will definitely listen to again
Thanks Dweezil…..,……..
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
Dweezil, you have delivered another great episode and it also seems on a meteorological level too as it’s burning hot in the UK at present-
This is what Van Halen is all about.
‘FUCK YEAH’
Best
Richard
Great epi!!!! Inspired me to reflect on 5150
https://www.dweezilzappa.com/videos/2041337
The time has come... it's 5150 time!
I keep re-listening to that Paul Gilbert episode and it never fails to make me happy. So much enthusiasm and insight. His analysis of Dave’s vocal phrasing is nothing short of a delight. Any chance you can get Billy Sheehan for a bonus episode? I just discovered his bass cover of “Mean Streets” off of the 2000 Niacin album today. Pure joy.
Brilliant show Dweezil. Thanks so much for putting this together. Cheers.
How’s the podcasts coming ?? I miss anything?
Hi James,
You didn't miss anything. The new episode is coming along. It requires some very tedious editing to remove delayed audio caused by zoom. I have to make edits every couple of seconds throughout an entire 2 hour conversation. It's taking weeks of my time but it's the only way to make the audio sound good enough for the show. Sorry for the delay everyone, it's coming!!!
Hi Dweezil , hope this finds you well ? loving all the episodes - multiple listens on all . Just wondered if you had ever approached Rudy Leiren as a potential guest ? . Also I have a Red Vinyl double album live from 19 /06/81 LA Sport Arena , I was told that VH were going to release it as a live album though never did ( I bought this around 1984/85 for £20) Any thoughts?
Hi Rich,
I haven't been in touch with Rudy. I would love to speak with him. I don't believe I've heard that sports arena recording. Is it an audience recording or is it a board mix?
Hi Dweezil , the recording doesn't have the finesse of a board recording but does sound like a rough mix, as there's no booming distorted drum sounds , if it is via the audience its pretty good - it still has fantastic mighty VH energy level all through it .
I really love how you repeatedly have to stop Paul Gilbert from just playing the whole album by himself.
Paul is a fun guest for sure!
I'm looking forward to the Sammy era episodes. I have to admit that I mostly listened to the DLR era and never paid that much attention to the Sammy stuff. I have all the albums, but the early stuff gets played the most!
It will be nice to explore the Sammy era with Dweezil and his guests.
So many emotions. Only 3 episodes in. Thanks for reminding me I picked the right hero. Bravo, Sir.
Hi Casey,
I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast. There's much more to discover.
I’m sure I speak for many people when I say that I’m very much looking forward to the next phase of the RWTD.
We have all greatly enjoyed the ‘early years’ and I’m sure we have all listened to them several times over- really, they have been fantastic!
I am a great fan of both eras and appreciate both the frantic enthusiasm of the early years for all it gives us and the more polished songwriting of the Hagar years.
I got into VH during the 5150/OU812 years so loved them even before catching up with their back catalogue.
And for me in rainy UK, 5150 represents sunny days and hot summer nights!
Its 5150 time!
Hi Richard,
I'm glad to hear that! Hopefully, this episode will bring about actual sunny weather for you! I'll get it out ASAP.
Is it 5150 time yet?
Hi Joshua,
It's almost 5150 time. I've been working hard on the episode and have found some cool extra audio tidbits to include. I'll be notifying everyone of the release ASAP.
Lol, thanks Dweez, we appreciate all your hard work
Can’t wait for 5150. Hopefully Dweezil can shed some light on the gear on that album.
Dweezil, after listening through all the podcast, the 2 with Blues are still my favorites. Couple of factoids, I came across a Nicolette Larson album in a record shop called "Raidoland". It came out in 1980 so I presumed it was the record that you where referring to when Ed played a guest solo since that is the same year that "WACF" came out (where Nicolette sang background vocals on Could this be Magic?) But the dates don't match up. I discovered that the song Ed played on was from her debut album in 1978 simply called "Nicolette" Logic would be that when she recorded her debut (with Ted Templeman) in 1978, VH was tracking their debut at the same time and Ed would do his guest solo at this time. Then a couple years later when she was recording her third album, VH was also recording their 3 album and at this point she would return the favor and sing back vocals.
Also you both note that until WACF the Eddie had not did a lot of overdubs but Jamie's Cryin from the first album has dubs all over it, especially the intro and outro, not parts that weave together subtlety but clearly 2 guitars on top of each other...just sayin'
Love you guys, can't wait for the Van Hagar deep dives, like you I'm here for the whole tone chasing ride!
In the "Reverse Engineering The Brown Sound" episode, will the information given be able to be applied to any piece of gear, such as amp modellers from Boss, Line 6, Axe FX, etc?
Hi Gareth,
Thanks for asking. That will be a tough episode to make especially if the goal is to broadly apply the research as you're suggesting. That said, I do have some ideas to share across multiple platforms when the time comes.
Thanks Dweezil, looking forward to it!
Loved the Satchel episode too. To hear (live performed) guitar quotes during the discussion an excellent idea.
Still waiting for the episode or bonus that shows us how to come in correctly on Panama and Hot for Teacher. Mini-Tutorials would be a nice add to this podcast. 15 min clip or something to chew on.
Money well spent!
Off topic, but I'm wondering if you (Dweezil) were involved in the Zappa documentary now showing on Hulu? I watched it last night.
Hi Stephen,
I had absolutely nothing to do with the Alex Winter film.